How do non power brakes work?

How do non power brakes work on a 1970 b body? SS/GTX clone car...
how does the pedal get back to the top position? Spring?
The rest I guess is self explanatory.. ? LOL

Yes there's a spring on the brake rod. But the springs between the pads pull the shoes away from the drums when you release the pedal forcing the fluid back thru the wheel cylinders into the master cylinder.

so thats it right, the rest is just the MC and brake lines... been like for ever since I worked on drum brakes... and helpful tips or anything

thank you !

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What are people doing for upgrades? or where is a good place to buy a kit with all I need to rebuild the current drum brakes?

Yes there's a spring on the brake rod. But the springs between the pads pull the shoes away from the drums when you release the pedal forcing the fluid back thru the wheel cylinders into the master cylinder.

You sure about that there spring? I have two manual brake cars, I don't have a spring on either.

"How do non power brakes work on a 1970 b body?" Answer: not well at all. At least, not for me. First thing I did on my last drum-brake car was change to power front disc.

I had 6 cylinder/small brake shoes on the front of my 3800+ Lb '63 plymouth that worked well up to 125 MPH in the 1/4 mile.I upgraded to non power front disc brakes by SSBC:icon_cheers:

Not sure who really made my disc brake kit. I got mine from Jeg's but it looks like the kit that comes from Master Power Brakes. They are non-power front disc and they stop the car real quick.

There is no spring. I had a pedal that didn't come all the way up. I found out that I needed to get a new M/C

Not sure who really made my disc brake kit. I got mine from Jeg's but it looks like the kit that comes from Master Power Brakes. They are non-power front disc and they stop the car real quick.Absolutely... but my lazy old leg told me to stick in a power booster.

If I ran this...it would give me power drum brakes right ? Would I be able to convert to front disc later and use the same MC ?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SSB-A28144/

Spoke to SSBC and that master will do the job for what ever I convert to later.. so I guess I am buying that master unless someone has a better plan?

Here is a question ...how much poressure does it take on the pedal? Maybe mine are working fine but I'm not used to pushing my foot as hard as I can to stop the car?
going to order the power MC though..

The problem may be the wrong master cylinder bore. The bore of the master you use should be based on the bore of the front caliper and rear wheel cylinders. Have the wring master affects pressure to apply the brakes and the clamping pressure. I'm manual brakes its just more noticeable.

looks to be all stock, I talked to the SSBC tech .. I can use the same MC when I upgrade to the front disc kit, its the same MC they send in the complete kit so I'm good to go for the future restoration.

Drums brakes can work very well. I ran a 68 Road Runner 10.60's and had manual drum brakes on it and had no problem stopping it without going to the last turnoff but I did have 11'' drums on it. The type of shoes or pads you use will make a difference in how well the car stops. Bore size of the master can also change your pedal 'feel'. You can also play games with the 'ratio' of the pedal. A longer pedal will give you more leverage but a stock system in good shape and using good parts should work fine. Here's a link to some info plus you can find info on the net about how hydraulics work and what will produce more pressure in the system beside just the mechanical end of it. Many people complained of how lousy the brakes were on these cars when they were new but a large part of that problem was the factory installed shoes that were barely adequate for normal driving let alone high performance driving. It's not much better today when you buy from the chain store auto parts with most of the junk being made in China. When you think brakes, think best parts made! http://www.familycar.com/brakes.htm

I agree with Cranky, drums are fine until they get heated up. The master for drum and disks should be of a different bore size no matter what MP tells you. Even autozone will have three different bore sizes for our cars

Heat kills any type of brake but disc brakes do manage it better....but generally, the better the shoe, the more heat it'll take and using the ribbed drums is a factor when using drums. I live in a flat part of the country (Gulf Coast) so I don't have to contend with mountainous terrain and melted brakes and boiled fluid.

well drums are off and it aint pretty thats for sure..LOL
they do move a little bit though but it does look like some leaking cylinders and to be honest a complete rebuild looks to be in order for each side ... so the dilema is rebuild these or just bite the bullet on the disc kit now.. not sure of prices yet for a complete rebuild on these?

Wheel cylinders should be available as are the shoes. You might try looking at Rockauto.com for prices or even buying from them. AZ and the like all sell wheel cylinders from China.......

I agree with Cranky, drums are fine until they get heated up. The master for drum and disks should be of a different bore size no matter what MP tells you. Even autozone will have three different bore sizes for our cars

GTX Ken is right....Also there is a difference in the power assist ratio between drum and disc booster's. I just went through this myself with dealing with Right Stuff Detailing.

Also, keep in mind you will need to install a proportioning valve and then probably a 10 PSI residual valve for your rear drums once you go to power disc. I don't know off hand if your distribution block from a manual drum car will work with an updated power disc system. You could kill two birds with one stone and buy the Wilwood dist. block/prop valve combo for $60 bucks.

yeah I have to rebuild what I have, I cant go buying a disc kit right now I just dont have the money... new shoes and wheel cylinders and I'll take it all apart and clean it up as best I can for now... I also have a new gas tank and trunk floor on the way and need a few light sockets ......

can you link me to that wilwood combo please

No problem buddy..........


http://www.jegs.com/i/Wilwood/950/260-11179/10002/-1

One from SSBC....Shop around, ebay is much cheaper

http://www.streetbeatcustoms.com/SSBC/Brake-Components/SSBC-All_In_One-Prop_Block-_-Adjustable-Proportioning-Valve-&-Distribution-Block-_-A0730PL/564751/

Also, If you end up having to buy new drums. I got brand new cast 11" rear drums for my roadrunner from Summit for around $35 bucks a piece
Rock Auto was $75 pc. Same MFG.

holy mother of god .... how the efff do you now what kit you need from wagner ?!?!?!?!?!?
how do you measure the drum size??
F78543s or H7132 ?
http://fme-cat.com/Application.aspx?year=1970&make=PLYMOUTH&model=SATELLITE&engine=V8%207.2L%207211CC/440CID%20VIN%20V&cat=Brake

Measure the drum from one side to the other on the brake surface...across the center....you can also measure how wide the shoes are.

Its 10" and when I look at everything we're looking at about $311 delivered... the front need new drums and the rear are fine but they (front and rear) need all new parts... The SSBC cast iron 4 piston kit is only like $809... $500 more.. dilema..LOL

Ok no dilema...LOL just have to remember this is only temporary transportation .... don't need drums or a disc kit right now, just need to make it so it stops....
the drums have some grooves but they aren't so bad that it wont work.. the new power MC will help with pedal pressure......



is there really no front springs of any kind in this car? that lonely shock is it?

Ok no dilema...LOL just have to remember this is only temporary transportation .... don't need drums or a disc kit right now, just need to make it so it stops....
the drums have some grooves but they aren't so bad that it wont work.. the new power MC will help with pedal pressure......



is there really no front springs of any kind in this car? that lonely shock is it?

Mopars in these years have torsion bars up front....those two bars running forward from the torsion bar crossmember under your feet and tie into the top of the lower control arms. That's it for spring's up there.

thats kind of crazy..or is it? This thing floats like a boat so suspension and shocks are next.. almost ready the drive to old girl... it aint pretty but it will be safe

WTF man, I just called ssbc to ask them a question and they said the power master wont work with drum brakes after telling me it would work with them. .....??????~~!!!!?

Torsion bars are used by many manufacturers. 4x4 Dakotas used them too...even GM used them at one time or another. If you push the front end down hard and it rebounds more than once after it settles the first time, your shocks are not doing their job.

99ss,

SSBC is right..That booster is designed for a disc/drum set up. The power assist ratio is different from a full drum to a disc/drum set up with the power booster. Two different boosters.

You're kind of in a tight spot....Problem is, most of these companies make power disc convertion kits for manual drum cars...You're going from manual drums to power drums and the booster that comes in the kits is for the disc set up. That link to Summit that you had showing the booster/master cylinder that you're buying is pretty much identical to what comes in the conversion kits from SSBC and Right Stuff Detailing.

You can easily buy a power drum master cylinder/booster set up for your car, but the problem there is that the bracket and rod's are different from a manual drum to a power drum car. In order to acurately do what your planning on, you would have to get all the correct rod/linkage/pedal arm from a power drum car, and buy a new booster/master cylinder for a power drum set up..

Otherwise, buy the front power disc brake conversion kit. The kit will come with that master cylinder/booster you looked at on summit and will bolt up to your manual set up under the dash.

There are companies that make manual disc brake convertion kits, including SSBC. Ever look into that?

Here is a site that will sell you a booster/master cylinder combo if you were still looking to go the power drum brake route.

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/search/?N=0&Nr=AND(wpn_tl_name:Brakes%5C%2C+Suspension+%26+Ste ering,wpn_cat_name:Brake+Master+Cylinders%5C%2C+Bo osters+%26+Components,wpn_scat_name:Brake+Boosters +%26+Components)

I used them to get a Disc Power Booster for my power drums to power disc converstion. You could probably take the Part# of it and shop around for a while to find a cheaper price maybe. I had good luck with them.

well I bought the other unit already so I guess I'll just save it for the future restoration. I ordered a new master for it, it was like $29 so I'll have brakes.. just didn't want to spend unnecessary money right now.... the thing is I talked to someone at SSBC before I bought it to make sure it would work and I got hosed by them.... I just need this car to drive for now.

some pics