360 or 440?

I have a problem in my life right now and i need some advice. My problem is i cant decide if i want to put a 440ci engine in my car or leave the 360LA engine.

Its a 1974 Charger that runs great but i would like to get some more ponies out of it. I'm leaning towards building a nice small block up because i have the right engine mounts, brackets,transmission,drive shaft,dual exhaust and i don't have to cut out my inner fender for headers on a 440 if it was to go in.

I would like to get some decent kind of fuel mileage from the car, good handling, power and a 1/4mile time of atleast 12.5 seconds.

my 440 is a 74 casting with 68 to 70 r/t 906 open chamber heads.
the 360 is a 76 to 86 engine with 576 heads.

Any advice on what would be great

440 all the way

I had a 360 in my 74 Charger, and although it was nice, it really needed a 440. I compromised with a 3:91, but milage went out the window. The charger weighs in around 5k lbs, so my suggestion would be to go with the 440.

Mileage AND 12.50s? There is no simple answer for that.

and by the way, there's nothing special about your 906 heads. Same head was used on a 383 2V

Two best ways to get better fuel mileage and keep good power are to put in an overdrive and/or fuel injection, in my opinion. Neither is cheap.

I would go with the 440, 74 Chargers are heavy cars and are more pleasant with big block power

The B-body car is no lightweight so it needs the torque of the bigblock. 440 al the way. Ron

Summit Racing sells a Blueprint Engines crate 360 with 375 hp and 460 ft-lbs of torque. $3,800 for a long block, $5,300 with intake, carb, distributor, fuel pump, coil, wires, and plugs. Lift is a reasonable .506, camshaft duration is 233/240 at .050 lift. Looks like a possibility to me. Paint it to look factory and nobody will know until they see your taillights!

74' Charger:weg::weg: 440! Better off with 915's vs. 906 (quench --- closed chamber----higher compression)

Right on, thanks a lot for all the help!

As mentioned above, 12.50's AND decent mileage is not going to happen unless you spend cubic $$$$ or buy a computer controlled aerodynamic reissue muscle car - more cubic $$$$.

Here's breaking down your request mathematically:

12.50 ET should be around a 108 MPH trap speed http://members.tripod.com/fast_wheels/1-4speed.htm

Your car weighs (according some info on the web) 3700 lbs. Add you and gas that could end up near 4000 lbs. - so lets say 4000 lbs.

I rearranged the late the late Roger Huntington's formula - MPH = 224 (hp/weight)1/3 to get HP: HP = lbs (MPH/224) ^3. ^3 means cubed.

108 / 224 = .4821. .4821 ^3 = .112. .112 x 4000 = 448 HP. My guess that's applied rear wheel HP and that translates to a healthy engine. You will also need to have the suspension set up for 1/4 mile performance and that means low gears and higher cruise RPM's. None of which are gas mileage friendly.

For approximate fuel usage based on HP I think I can use some marine calculations for brake specific fuel consumption. I get .4-.45 lbs of fuel per hour per HP. Fuel weighs about 6 lbs / gal, so at peak HP (448) you will use 33.6 gals of fuel per hour. Naturally, part throttle freeway cruising will use much less fuel and I think I'll just let some mathematician come up with that answer.

X2 there's no re-placement for dis-placement!!!!!!! :tongueflap: BTW thanks for the breakdown Dr. Meep!:yes:

Right on, thanks a lot for all the help!

Does this mean we talked you into going with the 440 !:yes:

Its a 1974 Charger that runs great but i would like to get some more ponies out of it. I'm leaning towards building a nice small block up because i have the right engine mounts, brackets,transmission,drive shaft,dual exhaust

I vote 360.....Let me go my usual route, which is against the grain the masses "440 it" thinking.
In your above quote is a perfect reason to go with a 360, economics. Another is every one has a big block in a B-body....yawn :sleep:.

When I owned this wagon I ran a 360/380-HP magnum crate motor. Regular 12.50's and had dipped into the 40's.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/TMP67/GeneralPhotos/cid_002801c66280aae1d2a0E8527D6BMAI.jpg

I vote 360.....Let me go my usual route, which is against the grain the masses "440 it" thinking.
In your above quote is a perfect reason to go with a 360, economics. Another is every one has a big block in a B-body....yawn :sleep:.

When I owned this wagon I ran a 360/380-HP magnum crate motor. Regular 12.50's and had dipped into the 40's.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/TMP67/GeneralPhotos/cid_002801c66280aae1d2a0E8527D6BMAI.jpg

You settled for 12s.....Ha Ha:tongue:,...With a Big Block you could have gotten it to the 10s.:D

You settled for 12s.....Ha Ha:tongue:,...With a Big Block you could have gotten it to the 10s.:D

My goal was mid 12's with in my budget.....both were achieved. Building the car opposite of the usual 'sheeple' approval was icing on the cake. :tongueflap:

Just messing with ya,.....the 360 is not a bad motor at all, .....I got one in my 2001 Ram.

"Meep-Meep" Thanks for the equation on gas & 1/4 mile. Everyone has talked me into the 440 build...BUT lol i think i'll take my time with the 440 and use it for another car i'm going to buy in 2 years when college is done. 1970 under B-body that needs a big block, I want to make a 6 Pack set up. been fascinated by it lol in my books its next the HEMI in "wow" factor.

"Wagondoors" Nice wagon! i really like the station wagon cars ever since i got to drive my brother hemi magnum r/t. oh at when i worked at Chrysler assembly pl;ant in brampton a guy had a 1970 plymouth wagon with a 440 and raced some loud mouth in his nissan 350Z. 350Z lost lol to a wagon so he didnt talk to highly of his car after that. btw the looks on peoples face's when you beat BMW's or other "high costing" cars in a Magnum wagon is Priceless. Do you know how much you car weighs?

I think my 68 Satellite wagon (9 pass, luggage rack, 440+6) weighed 4580 empty

I think my 68 Satellite wagon (9 pass, luggage rack, 440+6) weighed 4580 empty

440+6 in a 9 pass. wagon !.....what a Sleeper ! I bet you had some fun with that one !

Yeah, it was a gas. When I first put it together I used stock valve covers, and all the correct looms etc so it looked all factory original. really confused a lot of people. It had P/S. P/B, and A/C. Also had the two way tail gate with electric window. Had to run a 235 light truck tire on the back cause it was so heavy.

Do you know how much you car weighs?

I no longer own it, but pictured with the small block, 904 and 8 3/4 it weighed 3450 (less A/C & heater, wiper components and rear seat removed). It now resides in Detroit with a Hemi & a Dana (see Oct. 06 Mopar Muscle)
I am currently building a '66 Belvedere wagon. I'm hoping to sneak it under 3400 pounds.

You know, Dan Dvorak and Pete Tritak used to build and race Max Wedge wagons back in the 60's. Good stuff!

at first i was going to say the 440 but when you said that you already have everything to put the 360 in that changed my mind. If you build a really nice small block you could get enough power out of it that an average 440 would make and be much lighter in the front end. just my 2 cents

About 25 yrs ago I remember seeing a 73-ish Polara with a 440 six pack racing at Fremont Raceway. Watched it run a 13.9. The license plate said 1RADBOT.

A 440 would be a no brainer but schooling half the track with a 360 like the wagon guy above would be priceless!!

You will regret it someday if you go with the 360. My buddy went that way and a year later he went 440...

There's no Replacement for Displacement.

you know you want one. rb power

I sapped a tiered 273 in my '65 Belvedere with a 340 that I already had. I would go with a Bigblock had I do it again. The idea was ease and cost savings. I might sell the 340 and build a 440 now.

Dollar for Dollar, You get more Bang for Buck with a 440 than you would with a 360.

Depending on your budget and goals, your in the same boat I'm in...

440's are not all that cheap to buy and build anymore, compared to 360's...

You can score a decent low mileage 360 out of a Ram or Dakota for practically nothing, and you can get 400 hp out of it for about a Grand in parts that are easy to score...

if your set up for a small block already you'll save the costs reworking the cars drivetrain to install a 440.....

just my .02 cents...

My bet would be the 440 or something bigger. I do like built smallblocks, but with a 2 ton plus car displacement is going to be a winner. Like the man said " you can pay now or pay later" They are all expensive to build. Good Luck.

44044044044044044044044044044044044044044044044044 0440440440440440440440

44044044044044044044044044044044044044044044044044 0440440440440440440440

:wtg::wtg::wtg::wtg::wtg::wtg::wtg::wtg::wtg::wtg:

Well, I'll put my .02 in here. I'm just starting on a stroker 440 for my '69 Charger, so the jury is still out for me. However, I completed a 360/408 stroker for my 68 Notchback Cuda(yes it's an A-body) with RyanJ ported Eddy's and a hydraulic roller, and I handed just about every 440 powered B-body their proverbial @$$ at the Mopar Nationals in Ennis this year. I just laugh at all these big block guys that think they can run all over the little small block. The Mopar small block has made up a LOT of ground in respect to their stroker combo's. The Cuda is street driven and runs EASY 11's with a horrible(read me:black_eye:) driver on pump gas. So for all you Big Block guys(I have one under construction) beware of some of the small block combo's, you may get bit. :yes:

I'm surprised no one mentioned a "4 inch stroker for your 360. The added torque would help get that charger of the line. It would still be lighter weight with the small block, be 50 or so cubes bigger, and everything still bolts in with what you have. Start with a solid short block add on to it as funds allow(alluminum heads), and be lighter still!

It is not just power. The big block just looks right.
I do have a sb, but dream of my Hemi.