What Makes a Clone a Clone

If you read the "Welcome Wagon" threads then you know I'm new here and trying to soak up as much information as possible to get ready for when I'm actually able to begin working on a 1974 Road Runner. You may get some really "newbie" questions from me but I figure it's better than going into it blind.

One thing I see on occasion (on eBay and various websites) is the word "clone" being used. What would actually define a clone? Is it when a certain percentage of a car doesn't consist of original parts? Is it when the entire car is built from replica parts? Or is it something completely different?

I ask this question because I would really like to maintain the authenticity of the car but need to know how deep I would be getting myself in by trying to keep everything original. Knowing more about clones would also hep in picking out the project car to make sure I'm not scammed by someone trying to pass a clone off as the real thing.

We tend to use the word clone when the correct term is re-creation.
For instance, if you own a 72 Satellite and then add the items necessary to make it look like a 72 roadrunner, then you have created a "clone" so to speak. It's not really a runner, it just looks like one. Some cars are much easier to clone than others. The Daytona clones that many of us are building require body modifications and fairly expensive parts while some cars just need different badging.
As for your car, do what makes you feel good. People may try to sway your decision when they don't have the right to tell you what to do with your car. The car can always be put back original, although it seldom happens. My best advice is to always be truthful about the car when telling others what you have and there will be no embarrassment later.
I always tell people what my clones really are.
My red 71 Cuda started out life as a 71 Gran Coupe and my wife's 73 Cuda started out life as a plain jane 318 Barracuda. My Daytona clone started out life as a 69 Charger R/T SE.
Oh, and welcome to the site.

#1 - Thanks for the awesomely detailed explanation. That definitely gives me a load of information on what the term means and that "re-creation" is the more appropriate word for it.

#2 - Thanks for the welcome. So far, it's been nothing but a good experience.

To expand on the above info posted, I will say that it is really expensive to create a true "clone."
It really depends on how much money you want to spend and how "correct" you want it to look.
To do a clone "right" for most lat 60s-early 70s Mopars it requires different dash clusters and often different dash frames, expensive original correct carbs, intakes, exhaust manifolds, hoods, and emblems.
Many people just change an hood, add stripes, emblems, a big engine, headers, etc and call it good. Driving down the road or at a stop light no one knows the difference from the real deal, but stopped and on closer inspection it is easy to determine that it is not a real car for the trained eye. I would say that at the typical parking lot car show 50% of the attendees or more would not know the difference.

Makes sense. I'm not really going for a clone or anything, I've just seen the term used here and there and wanted to get a good idea of what the term actually meant. I definitely want to rebuild / restore an original as much as possible to maintain authenticity.

They are both correct in what they've said. Ultimately YOU are the one that has to be happy with YOUR car. What the rest of us think really doesn't matter.....unless you make it a low rider then we get to shoot you.....

Go to Mopar shows. Take lots of pics. Post a "wanted" for a factory brochure for pics and descriptions of original equipment (keeping in mind that they will NOT be 100% correct 100% of the time). All this will give you good ideas of what is supposed to be right (or wrong) for your car to keep it as original.

Good luck, keep us all posted on the progress, and if I didn't catch you in the Welcome Wagon......Welcome

Nah, you caught me on the Welcome Wagon thread. Thanks for the advice on posting a want ad for the brochures.

One final question. I understand the definitions given so far, but the main reason for me asking this question is because I picked up a Paddock book at the Mopar Nationals here in Columbus and after looking through it it seems like you could build an entire car directly from what they offer in the book. They've got reproduction parts of quarter panels, lights, door parts, engine parts, etc. It's not necessarily something I'm planning on doing if it would make the project unauthentic but it's something that I've always wondered.

Actually, the availability of repro parts for mopars is still quite limited overall. They are starting to make most of the sheet metal for the e-bodies, but still no doors or window regulators. As for other models, it's hit or miss. The other problem is that many of the repro parts are junk. It's getting better, slowly. I'm getting ready to install one of the new quarters that AMD just released for the 69 runners. I'll know whether it fits or not in a few days.

There are several complete chevy models that are reppoped, but then you need to go to your motor vehical dept and get an inspection and vin from them. Transfering numbers opens another can of worms!

"Can of worms" might be an understatement. If the state issues a vin, it's going to be a 17 digit vin, be considered a home built vehicle and will be marked as the current year model, i.e. 2008 model. It won't say Camaro or Mustang anywhere on the title.
Most states are tightening up on releasing titles. I bought a 77 Trans Am SE at a bank auction and the state almost refused to give me a title. As far as they were concerned, it still belonged to the guy that the bank repo'ed it from. They just didn't want to get involved with the legal aspect of the transaction. Up until recently, I could pretty much get a title for just about anything, easily.
I would do a lot of research before buying a crate car.

Hey Hotrod,
Isn't Arkansas the state the late great Boyd Coddington used to wash his titles at?
Titles on crate cars can be a real downer. Here in Cal they only issue so many a year, and the verification process can be really entertaining. It usually requires an inspection by the local Highway Patrol office and they are not always the most car savvy or car friendly.

Also, as a side note. Hotrod, you are right about the quality of replacement sheet metal. Now, consider a complete body shell made up of completely new replacement sheet metal. You know how much work you have to put into a single replacement part. How much work do you think a complete replacement body will need?

Rev.

Most states are tightening up on releasing titles. I bought a 77 Trans Am SE at a bank auction and the state almost refused to give me a title. As far as they were concerned, it still belonged to the guy that the bank repo'ed it from. They just didn't want to get involved with the legal aspect of the transaction. Up until recently, I could pretty much get a title for just about anything, easily.
I would do a lot of research before buying a crate car.

that has to be PENN DOT :mad: what part of REPO didnt the friggng government understand ? they didnt want to get involved ? WTF ? they just didnt feel like doing a little work is more like it . :mad:

Hey Hotrod,
Isn't Arkansas the state the late great Boyd Coddington used to wash his titles at?
Titles on crate cars can be a real downer. Here in Cal they only issue so many a year, and the verification process can be really entertaining. It usually requires an inspection by the local Highway Patrol office and they are not always the most car savvy or car friendly.

Also, as a side note. Hotrod, you are right about the quality of replacement sheet metal. Now, consider a complete body shell made up of completely new replacement sheet metal. You know how much work you have to put into a single replacement part. How much work do you think a complete replacement body will need?

Rev.

Not sure, but seems like I read that it was another southern state, possibly Georgia. Last I heard, Georgia was still issuing titles with few problems.

that has to be PENN DOT :mad: what part of REPO didnt the friggng government understand ? they didnt want to get involved ? WTF ? they just didnt feel like doing a little work is more like it . :mad:

Even the state government is reluctant to get involved with civil matters nowadays. The world is changing right before our eyes.

Even the state government is reluctant to get involved with civil matters nowadays. The world is changing right before our eyes.

Everyone is sue happy nowadays . Even the government is afraid to step on toes for fear of a lawsuit.
As far as clone or recreation goes , that depends on if you are the buyer looking to get it cheap . You would call it a clone . If you are the seller who dumped a ton of cash in it and want to sell it insanely high , you call it a recreation . Worst thing to do is try to pass off a clone as an original . Besides , what is wrong with owning a Coronet , Satellite , or base Charger anyway ? Not all 60's and 70's cars were musclecars .

Not sure, but seems like I read that it was another southern state, possibly Georgia. Last I heard, Georgia was still issuing titles with few problems.

Oh great, something else for the Russians to be pissed off at Georgia for....

Rev.

Oh great, something else for the Russians to be pissed off at Georgia for....

Rev.

:rolling:

Go to Mopar shows. Take lots of pics. Post a "wanted" for a factory brochure for pics and descriptions of original equipment (keeping in mind that they will NOT be 100% correct 100% of the time). All this will give you good ideas of what is supposed to be right (or wrong) for your car to keep it as original.

I did just that to get glass for my 66 Bel II. Took 2 years to find origional glass in good shape.

Pulled my glass out and apart and found out that it was all left over 65 parts the "factory" used up on my car, NONE OF THE CRAP I SCROUNGED UP FIT......:edgy:

Original: Sweet looking fast musclecar that is kept in a climate control garage and only taken out for shows.
Clone: Sweet looking fast musclecar that is driven and enjoyed on the street on a daily basis.
:yes:

Yuri... for the original description, you could also add... "and only trailered to shows". I know there are exceptions guys.....

I've actually seen a guy with a restored and we'll presume original '57 Chevy fuelie convert, that puts booties on his tires before he rolls the car off of the trailer and onto it's show pad on the grass at car shows. The car has never been fired since being restored.....

Rev.

I've actually seen a guy with a restored and we'll presume original '57 Chevy fuelie convert, that puts booties on his tires before he rolls the car off of the trailer and onto it's show pad on the grass at car shows. The car has never been fired since being restored.....

Rev.

I always thought booties were for babies.

I've actually seen a guy with a restored and we'll presume original '57 Chevy fuelie convert, that puts booties on his tires before he rolls the car off of the trailer and onto it's show pad on the grass at car shows. The car has never been fired since being restored.....

Rev.

I always thought booties were for babies.


What else would you call a Chevy? :toothy9:

It is a term for when you make something that was originally offered from the factory from a car that did not originally come from the factory that way.

It can be something as little as converting a 440 GTX with automatic into a 4 speed. (you have "cloned" a 440/4 speed)

or as far out as turning a 70 Satellite into a Superbird 0r 71 318 Barracuda into a Hemi 'Cuda.

Most commonly it falls somewhere in the middle. Your 383 RR becomes a 440, your small block Chevelle becomes a SS454, your lemans or GTO becomes a Judge RA car.

Never start up the engine or driving it?

What a waste! That's the part that gives me the biggest rush, and satisfaction.
Everytime I get in, pump the gas, turn the key, listen to the engine rumble, put it in gear, and start down the road. It like a time machine that takes you back when these cars were the norm on the road. I constant get a thumbs up or looks of envy from someone.

It really sad, the guy has no idea what he is missing.

clone...My opinion is most people use this very loosely. My opinion is if the car has every badge/scoop/grill/speedometer/etc that a "pedigree" car has then it is a clone/recreation. The only difference between a clone and pedigree car should be the vin....if not...it's just not a clone. See My 67 satellite....couldn't tell the difference between it and a gtx except the vin

what would you clasify a rebody.i have a 73 sebring plus with descent body and chassis.2 73 road runners with bodies which are shot.see where i,m going with this.everything including numbers would be transfered.would this still be a clone?

classify it as illegal

never thought of it that way.been doing it for years with my plow trucks but they are keepers till the very end of thier day.wont be doing a number change on this cause i will be giving this car to my son and he may sell it one day,so clone it is.

...".everything including numbers would be transfered.would this still be a clone? "

No, it would be called a felony. Ask any cop what would happen if somebody changed the VIN plate.

AND THE CAR USUALLY IS CONFISCATED.

This is Pandoras Box!!!!
If you have a "car", repair portions of the "car", you still have the "car". If that "car" were a GTX, it would still be a GTX.
If I purchased a Sat, and placed GTX badges on it, it would not turn into a GTX... It was not sold as a GTX option car.
I fall into the category of folks who believe if you "Re-Body" a car, it's not longer the same car. If I repair portions of the body, it still holds it's "same car status".
Now you ask, "how much of the car can be repaired before it's no longer concidered "the same car". Well,,,, I dont know for sure.... For me, I would think anything beyond new quarters and fenders, perhaps doors too... This is something that you as an owner or potential purchaser have to conclude for yourself....

...".everything including numbers would be transfered.would this still be a clone? "

No, it would be called a felony. Ask any cop what would happen if somebody changed the VIN plate.

AND THE CAR USUALLY IS CONFISCATED.

There is nothing illegal about it as long as you have clear title for both cars and there are no stolen parts involved. It goes on everyday with body shops that do wreck rebuild work. Some states require special inspection/paper work to do it. If you are doing it in the privacy of your own shop there is nothing involved and it happens everyday.