Building a RV 440

[rebootej]

Im playing with the idea of putting a 440 in my Satellite. The 318 currently in it is having some issues and making scary noises. I know what i need to do to do the swap, I've read the sticky but what do you guys recommend for building the actually motor? I have a 440 and trans out of of motorhome already. The price was too good to pass up the trans had the short tailshaft, but ideally id like to adapt my A518 to to the 440 with and ultrabell so I can keep the OD, its so nice on the freeway.
Im brand new to big blocks. I would like to build a solid running healthy sounding 440.
What kind of compression do these engines have? How much do i need to bring it up? Or do I?
Best way to accomplish this?
What headers fit best on a 74 B-body?
Im planning on keeping the cast crank, not trying to get super crazy with the build attempting to do it on a budget. Need to figure out what heads the engine has. Are most heads worth it after doing machine work?
Basically I'm looking for any advice you guys have. Ive always wanted a big block, and I've got this one just sitting in the garage. So why not put it to work??

 

[493 Mike]

Have you considered a cast crank stroker 360? With a good set of heads you could have big block power with much less trouble/expense.
Mike

 

[wyrmrider]

That's one way to do it
What year motorhome- they usually have premium motorhome valves which are almost bullet proof
unfortunately the heads are the open chamber bathtub style you may have less than 8:1 actual compression
and the pistons are way down the bore
resulting in a motor that makes more heat than horsepower
If the compression is good (even) and you do not want to start spending money new timing chain and advance the cam 4 degrees and enjoy
second choice is new cam with a mopar only grind 256 @006, 204 @50 .300 lift at the cam you need the low overlap and short seat to wake up the low compression- remember you have an OD
third choice is to put some KB reverse deflector pistons in it- fillup that combustion chamber to give some quench and raise the compression
above cam still works especially with that OD trans
doing the two together can reduce your exhaust temp by 800 that's EIGHT HUNDRED degrees
On my motor I'm using 67 915 heads with the wedge chamber and 440 six pack pistons with a D Dish cut to give 9.5 compression and .030 piston to head (pistons are out of the deck .010- not because I wanted to but because the decks were way off- unusual but it happens) currently in a maxivan 3:54 gears
If you want to go heads - think about it and factor in the guides and seats and a slight deck of the stock heads the aftermarket heads start to look attractive and simplify the piston choices
with short cams a set of HP manifolds work well but IDK about header vendors keep the tube on the small side and as long as you can get them (withthe oD)
or shorties- whatever - if you were doing 4:11 gears and no OD we'd do it different the steering gear is in a different place than the early B-E bodies- I think you us headers similar to C Body on the left side- check your pan sump location

 

[66Satellite47]

A moderate 440 is an easy build. See what casting numbers the heads are. For a moderate build all that's needed is a mild pocket port (really perks up big blocks) & good valve job. If you can get to 9.0 CR that's good with today's gas & iron heads. Headers make a big difference, 1 3/4". A cam like a Comp XE274H is mild but should give decent power.

 

[PurpleBeeper]

I seem to remember that motor home 440's (& I think some police 400's?) have extra cooling passages in the block that extend into the heads via a loop around each spark plug. I believe you can just use normal head gaskets to block those off with no problem OR find the right gaskets OR punch holes in standard gaskets. You only need the extra holes if you have heads to match (fyi-I think you can drill holes in standard blocks). The extra holes would be noticeable, looking down at the block with the heads off, as two maybe 3/16" size holes just below each cylinder on the deck of the block where the heads bolt up.

 

[Ghostrider 67]

Do a search of the forum for the handle IQ52. He works with motors and has posted a complete thread about building these motors including copious amounts of dyno time with various combos of heads, cams, intakes and machine work.

 

[rebootej]

The heads are 4006452. So a 1976-1978 motor and yes the block has the extra large cooling ports the 8 shaped ones. Are these heads worth doing a little work on? What was the compression on these motors with these heads? I definitely want to do some headwork, cam, headers and intake. and pistons if i still need for compression??

 

[HT413]

The 452 heads are a fine head. I may be wrong, but I didn't think 452's came on motor homes. Makes me think that motor might not be as stock as you think.

Either way, Dwayne Porter is a big time mopar guru - here's his comments on the 452 head... http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/62.html

 

[wyrmrider]

Recommending a Chevy cam for a MOPAR? why give away the MOPAR advantage?
that said MOPARS with open chambers can run with a large cam but it takes gears, converter, hopefully a light car and premium gas and you have to rev the snot out of them
they are NOT happy with OD trans unless you have 390-411 gears
those 452 heads- I always blend the bowls but usually put in the oversize valves to get a new seat and put in new seats in the exhaust
we're dealing with 40 year old parts here and most of the surface hardening on the exhaust seats was gone several valve jobs ago
a 274 degree cam works out on the road when you hit passing gear
When testing MOPARS we found the Magnum cam required the Magnum converter- and the factory used the smaller converter in late 440's cuz the torque was so bad with the combination they chose to pass smog- 440 Cordobas were dogs till you got them on the expressway
going to even one size larger MP cam hurt 60 foot times (but made up for it in a 1/4 mile)
so figure out how you want to drive the car - BTW how heavy is it? If you can live with it being flat off the line and when you just step down on the gas (without kickdown) then go for a 274 cam- If you are cruzing at 2000 rpm and want some acceleration when you just move the throttle then go shorter

 

[rebootej]

Car is a 1974 Satellite so figure 3300 lbs? The car currently had 3.23s in the rearend but i was planning changing. I have a set of 410 i can use.
What are your thoughts on the compression? How do i figure out what I am working with? Whats my goal. IQs was originally at 8.9?

 

[rebootej]

So my reading it telling me that I should have to worry as much about compression and focus my attention on upping the flow of the heads??

 

[62 Dart Convertible]

So my reading it telling me that I should have to worry as much about compression and focus my attention on upping the flow of the heads??

I sure don't want to steal IQ's thunder, but I have read his repeated mantra that free flowing heads are more pivotal in making good numbers than a high CR. Sure a higher CR (if you have the fuel for it that allows for appropriate ignition timing without detonation) will make more power but it is not as crucial as good airflow.

 

[66Satellite47]

The 452's will make good power. Key is the pocket port under the valve seat. Take little out of the intake pushrod lump, a little off the top & sides of the exhaust ports. They'll work fine. The 2.14/1.81 valves are a very good plan. The work on the heads gets you lots more than a CR increase. A 452 head will take a fair amount of milling to get the chamber size down. With a CR of around 9 you can still use available gas, but not much higher. Cam shafts are still mystical. For street driving the modern shorter duration with higher lifts seem good. As for gears, my Satellite has 4.10's with a 28" tire. It's great on the side streets, spins pretty high on the freeway, 3500 rpm or so at 65 mph. Very loud & drinks a lot of fuel. If you're mostly street driving 3.55's or at most 3.91's. BTW I'd guess the weight of your Satellite at 3800 - 4000 lbs.

 

[wyrmrider]

choose your poison

you said budget or cost -effective
porting the heads helps at higher rpm bun no amount of porting is going to make under 9:1 make any dynamic compression- now a blower does work
compression helps everywhere
actually they have to work together with the cam
66 satellite makes sense
Better weigh your car- I'm thinking closer to 4K
remember he wants to run an OD
but bottom line - open chamber heads do not and can not work at lower rpm- just visualize across the combustion chamber- like a fried egg with the sparkplug low and to one side-the side away from the spark plug detonates- simple as that and with mopars and sbc the center two exhausts run hot- so keep the valves on the seats as long as possible- or pour fuel through them to cool them off
work out your budget on building 452's and compare to some wedge heads
and don't even think of running a 6 pack combination of heads and compression on the street with today's gas- you end up retarding the spark - which creates more heat and you end up chasing your tail

 

[wyrmrider]

Someone recommended the Chevy grind XFI 274
here is a mopar grind with similar lift and area under the curve
5904 266 @.006 8 degrees shorter gets the intake valve closed so you build some dynamic compression
221 @.050 (sort of meaningless except to degree in your cam
138 @200- actually useful
.325 lobe lift giving .488 lift with 1.5 rockers or .520 with 1.6 which I recommend for intake only

If you liked the way a 274 degree cam was driveable then try
5964 275 @006 231 @.050 149 @200 .350 lobe lift .525 @1.5 .560 @ 1.6
remember Comp says 270 is max with stock HP converter- basically what I've found and posted above
One thing for the OP to do is go through those flows posted and pick a set that he realistically thinks he can have- and post back
picking a cam without knowing the flows first (and true CR) wastes a lot of time and greatly increases the chance of a wrong cam
for both the head flows and cam BVVC of the slippery slope that bigger is better
Think about how a MOPAR pulls with the stock 440 cam's durations and the 440 Magnum cam how much torque do you want to loose to get how much more top end?

 

[rebootej]

Wow guys thanks for all the info! Ill admit I am a bit lost. I assumed the head work was something I would have to/want to have an experienced machine shop do? Is this correct?

How do i determine what compression this block has? measure how far the piston is down the hole then what? sounds like i want it to be closer to 9.0?

Yes i want to keep running the overdrive so im not too concerned about hi rpms on the freeway that last gear is .69 my current 3.23 gears are way to low.

Im also a little confused on all the cam numbers and how i compare them to what the dealers are giving me?

Appreciating all the advice!

 

[HT413]

The only way to find the compression ratio is to take the heads off and take detailed measurements of combustion chambers as well as how far the piston is down the cylinder at TDC - top dead center.

 

[rebootej]

Ok sounds good, the heads are already off the motor so that easy to do. Ill measure them this evening.

 

[oldbee]

Someone recommended the Chevy grind XFI 274
here is a mopar grind with similar lift and area under the curve
5904 266 @.006 8 degrees shorter gets the intake valve closed so you build some dynamic compression
221 @.050 (sort of meaningless except to degree in your cam
138 @200- actually useful
.325 lobe lift giving .488 lift with 1.5 rockers or .520 with 1.6 which I recommend for intake only

If you liked the way a 274 degree cam was driveable then try
5964 275 @006 231 @.050 149 @200 .350 lobe lift .525 @1.5 .560 @ 1.6
remember Comp says 270 is max with stock HP converter- basically what I've found and posted above
One thing for the OP to do is go through those flows posted and pick a set that he realistically thinks he can have- and post back
picking a cam without knowing the flows first (and true CR) wastes a lot of time and greatly increases the chance of a wrong cam
for both the head flows and cam BVVC of the slippery slope that bigger is better
Think about how a MOPAR pulls with the stock 440 cam's durations and the 440 Magnum cam how much torque do you want to loose to get how much more top end?

Reboot always remember that "bigger is better" really only pertains to cubic inches. Big cams,headers always sound & "talk" good, but matching everything up good works better on the street for good drivability.

 

[beanhead]

Man..looks like auto correct did a number on ya haha!

The only way to find the country mores soon..