Cooling issues - and a weird question

Heating, Cooling & AC

  1. khryslerkid

    khryslerkid FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

    My Photo Garage
    Messages:
    8,904
    Likes Received:
    8478
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Location:
    Hanover, Pennslyvania
    Local Time:
    12:39 PM
    I was scratching my head on my setup too. The first fire up, to break in the cam, didn't take too long to get up to the 180 T stat temp, and it never got above that the whole 20+minutes. A couple of days later I fired it up to set the idle, timing and carbs and it took forever to get to the 180*.

    I'm thinking that these radiators we have, with the shroud, plus we both have the same fan, which really does move some air, is doing the job! :thumbsup:

    I'm running E free, 91 octane also. I'm sure that helps a lot too. And a Water Wetter with dist.water.

    Glad to hear your back on the road again Ed!

    20170709_212459.png
     
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
    • moparedtn

      moparedtn Well-Known Member

      My Photo Garage
      Messages:
      1,682
      Likes Received:
      896
      Joined:
      May 14, 2011
      Location:
      Rogersville, TN
      Local Time:
      12:39 PM
      Thanks so much, Bob. Not there yet, but a darn sight closer for sure. :)
       
    • moparedtn

      moparedtn Well-Known Member

      My Photo Garage
      Messages:
      1,682
      Likes Received:
      896
      Joined:
      May 14, 2011
      Location:
      Rogersville, TN
      Local Time:
      12:39 PM
      Thanky kindly. :)
      I reckon I'm back to where I thought I was a few times before in all this, namely, sorting out minor little bugs at the end of a resurrection.
       
    • moparedtn

      moparedtn Well-Known Member

      My Photo Garage
      Messages:
      1,682
      Likes Received:
      896
      Joined:
      May 14, 2011
      Location:
      Rogersville, TN
      Local Time:
      12:39 PM
      Thanks KK!
      Wow, I likes them thar fancy gauges you got there.
      Yep on the radiator and the fan - Professor Ehrenbergs' record is still perfect, at least with me. He nailed it on the Griffin and Dave nailed it on the fan recommendation. Stock shroud fit this Griffin perfectly, too.
      I actually started believing the fan alone was keeping the engine cooled enough to keep the thermostat from opening, then I remembered drilling those holes in the t-stat.
      Reckon that little bit of water movement is enough when idling? I can't prove it isn't. :)
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • moparedtn

        moparedtn Well-Known Member

        My Photo Garage
        Messages:
        1,682
        Likes Received:
        896
        Joined:
        May 14, 2011
        Location:
        Rogersville, TN
        Local Time:
        12:39 PM
        I just went back and read my original post in this thread.
        A quote from that post:
        "I want overkill. I want the thing to struggle to make 180F. I want the total peace of mind that says it can't overheat - ever."
        I reckon we're there. :)
         
        • Agree Agree x 3
        • khryslerkid

          khryslerkid FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

          My Photo Garage
          Messages:
          8,904
          Likes Received:
          8478
          Joined:
          Mar 10, 2010
          Location:
          Hanover, Pennslyvania
          Local Time:
          12:39 PM
          I drilled one 1/16" hole in my T-stat. and that will keep an air pocket from forming. My stat opens right at 180* and the water starts moving but not before. I used a stock eight blade water pump.

          I'm thinking I might have to change it to a 195* if it acts cold natured and the plug readings show it. Time will tell...
           
          • Like Like x 1
          • Cornpatch MO

            Cornpatch MO Well-Known Member

            Messages:
            2,017
            Likes Received:
            1043
            Joined:
            Nov 28, 2011
            Location:
            Southwest Iowa
            Local Time:
            11:39 AM
            Glad to hear that all your efforts have been successful. Now quit mess'in with it and get out there and put some happy miles on.
            I have been plagued with one after another problem of a different sort. Today I was headed to a friends shop to put in new motor mounts ( the old ones had less than 2000 miles) and a new Schumacker torque strap. The engine had been ticking a little and seems to have gotten a little louder, While there we would put a stethoscope to it and trace it down. The ticking got much worse-rapidly , and then I lost all oil pressure. This is day- ja- vu all over again ! Same thing happened last year. Call for a tow , got to the shop, pulled a valve cover, and sure enough--broken rocker shaft. I had never heard of that happening , and now it's happened to me twice in one year ! This is one for a new tech thread...........................MO
             
            • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
            • Agree Agree x 1
            • moparedtn

              moparedtn Well-Known Member

              My Photo Garage
              Messages:
              1,682
              Likes Received:
              896
              Joined:
              May 14, 2011
              Location:
              Rogersville, TN
              Local Time:
              12:39 PM
              I might have overdone the drilling part - mine has three 1/8" holes in it. :)
              Still, the thought of keeping any engine cool with just those holes, leave alone a big block, just doesn't compute. I figure it just delays it getting to the final operating temperature a little bit.

              It's also quite interesting to me that this Edelbrock changed so much just from putting the jetting/rods back in it that it came with originally. It seems pretty close on setup now, although I'm not thrilled on how quickly the secondaries kick in - it seems pretty late in the pedal travel to me.
              Not used to this type carb I guess, with those counterweights and all that crap.
              On the other hand, it ran smoothly without hiccup at any RPM I chose yesterday. Might have something to do with it running cooler, too.

              On the t-stat temperature, I always remembered cars running 180's back then; the FSM confirmed that for me when I was reading it recently as well.
              That has stuck with me all these years and I even change out the t-stats on my modern cars to 180 as well. I know, I know, emissions and fuel economy, yada yada, they're designed to run hotter.
              I've just seen too many engines ruined from heat in my lifetime, I guess.
               
              • Agree Agree x 2
              • moparedtn

                moparedtn Well-Known Member

                My Photo Garage
                Messages:
                1,682
                Likes Received:
                896
                Joined:
                May 14, 2011
                Location:
                Rogersville, TN
                Local Time:
                12:39 PM
                Thanks, Mo. :)

                Dang, is that happening with factory rocker shafts or aftermarket ones?
                Was it the same head as before? Wonder if the rocker shaft saddle wasn't machined true or I dunno...
                Yep, new thread time for sure.
                I think I'll take my driveshaft loose from the rear axle and rotate it 180 degrees to try and get rid of the vibration. I know of no other reason for it to start this nonsense - the car hasn't had this problem before.
                 
              • Hemirunner

                Hemirunner Well-Known Member

                Messages:
                2,530
                Likes Received:
                1785
                Joined:
                Jul 12, 2011
                Location:
                Down South
                Local Time:
                11:39 AM
                Glad to hear all of your heating issues are resolved. Now you can enjoy driving it.
                The new cars run around 210 and they've found that engine wear is actually less at the higher temps. The new engines are going several hundred thousand miles without the wear our older ones saw in a fraction of that time.
                 
                • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
                • moparedtn

                  moparedtn Well-Known Member

                  My Photo Garage
                  Messages:
                  1,682
                  Likes Received:
                  896
                  Joined:
                  May 14, 2011
                  Location:
                  Rogersville, TN
                  Local Time:
                  12:39 PM
                  Thanky kindly, sir. :)
                  Well, there's a lot more to it than that, really. Metallurgy, manufacturing processes and even lubrication advances all make it so that they can build 'em better these days than our engines of decades ago - and in doing so, surviving higher temps and closer tolerances that federal emission laws forced them into, if we're honest.

                  Now, does that mean an engine with a block cast in the 60's or 70's could be rebuilt to similar tolerances - and to withstand that same higher operating temperature?
                  Perhaps, but it probably isn't very cost-effective (or wise) to do so, given the comparatively inferior metallurgy in it.
                  These critters of ours were originally specified to run with 180 thermostats for daily use for a reason.

                  I was just watching a video today, in fact, of a dyno session with a new Ford Coyote crate motor that was pushing 500hp right out of the box. Holley was performing the testing, tuning it using one of their EFI computers instead of the factory one.
                  The fellow conducting the test was Holleys' resident elder expert and his own car had just won a Wally in racing the week previous; he knows his stuff, simply put.
                  When asked what temperature the Coyote should be installed to run on the street, his answer was quick and simple:
                  If there isn't a concern with emissions testing - and if the owner wants it to be faster - then 160-180 degrees is where they want to run it.
                  His words.
                   
                  • Like Like x 1
                  • Hemirunner

                    Hemirunner Well-Known Member

                    Messages:
                    2,530
                    Likes Received:
                    1785
                    Joined:
                    Jul 12, 2011
                    Location:
                    Down South
                    Local Time:
                    11:39 AM
                    Yep, 210 to 180 will make more power. Mine uses a stock 47 year old radiator, a stock style clutch fan, water pump and 7 blade fan. It makes 700hp and we're throwing a ton of nitrous at it. This was on a 88 degree day during a nitrous dragstip pass. Check out the temp gauge.
                     
                    • Like Like x 1
                    • moparedtn

                      moparedtn Well-Known Member

                      My Photo Garage
                      Messages:
                      1,682
                      Likes Received:
                      896
                      Joined:
                      May 14, 2011
                      Location:
                      Rogersville, TN
                      Local Time:
                      12:39 PM
                      Can't complain about that at all. :)
                       
                    • moparedtn

                      moparedtn Well-Known Member

                      My Photo Garage
                      Messages:
                      1,682
                      Likes Received:
                      896
                      Joined:
                      May 14, 2011
                      Location:
                      Rogersville, TN
                      Local Time:
                      12:39 PM
                      Oops, found out what the drivetrain vibration is. :(
                      There is a serious amount of slop in the tail on the transmission where the yoke for the driveshaft goes in. Yoke depth is about perfect, but I can easily "rattle" the yoke around inside the tailshaft housing of the tranny.
                      Crap...
                       
                    • Fran Blacker

                      Fran Blacker Well-Known Member

                      My Photo Garage
                      Messages:
                      1,541
                      Likes Received:
                      951
                      Joined:
                      Sep 23, 2016
                      Location:
                      Connecticut
                      Local Time:
                      12:39 PM
                      Transmission shops have a tool to pull bushing, no trans removal .
                       
                      • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
                      • Agree Agree x 1
                      • Fran Blacker

                        Fran Blacker Well-Known Member

                        My Photo Garage
                        Messages:
                        1,541
                        Likes Received:
                        951
                        Joined:
                        Sep 23, 2016
                        Location:
                        Connecticut
                        Local Time:
                        12:39 PM
                        http://www.ebay.com/itm/MILLER-TOOL...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

                        Ed this is what to tool looks like, this I don't know if this tool is for mopars. Look for an older trans shop they probably will have one for a mopar. Have a bushing and seal ready for them so you don't wait for parts. I was quoted $90 labor. It's probably an hour job, labor a round here is about $90 per hour. I haven't done it to my car because after the quote my H-pipe might need to be removed. The cross over is at end of trans so it would be hot when I drove it there. More hassles, Doing other project now may remove tail shaft myself or buy the tool.
                         
                        • Like Like x 1
                        • Cornpatch MO

                          Cornpatch MO Well-Known Member

                          Messages:
                          2,017
                          Likes Received:
                          1043
                          Joined:
                          Nov 28, 2011
                          Location:
                          Southwest Iowa
                          Local Time:
                          11:39 AM
                          I would first expect the yoke splines to be worn. This is very common on 18 wheeler drive lines, and certainly will cause a vibration. ...........................MO