Critique My Engine Build....440

[threewood]

I dropped my motor off at the shop yesterday and they plan on cleaning and checking it for cracks today. So I figured I should start getting a game plan together. It is going to be a street car, not daily driven but driven a few times a week around town. Goal is 525hp street brawler that sounds nasty.
Car specs (1969 GTX)
727 auto
8.75 rear with 3.55 sure grip rear
440 block is a 69 hp block
Stock front suspension
Mopar s.s. springs rear

Forged crank, stock stroke.
Stock rods
Keith Black Pistons from Hughes KB237, size to be determined. Used with the Stealth heads, should yield a 10.6:1cr depending on gasket http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/...Q==&searchmode=partnumber&page=6&partid=27949
Hughes solid lifter cam STL 4246BS3-9
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/...&level2=RmxhdCBUYXBwZXQsIFNvbGlk&partid=30278

Hughes EDM lifters 5012
Hughes 1128 springs
Stealth Heads (80cc). I like these better because of the straight plug placement and sealed water jacket under exhaust studs. Plus they look stock and I plan to paint the entire motor hemi orange for a stock look.
Edelbrock Performer RPM high rise dual plane intake.
850 Demon carb.
Headers (looking at Summit or Jegs brand)
ARP con rod bolts, cap studs, and head bolts.
Mancini Racing Adjustable Rocker Kit, 1.5:1 ratio, MRE 57001-15-714
Ball / cup pushrods

Thoughts? Opinions?
My reasoning on solid vs. hyd cam.... love the sound, higher reving, no worries about bleed down or pump up. And I am buying the adjustable rockers regardless. Spring pressure is higher with solid but within specs of rockers and the springs are a matched to the cam. I will listen to any advise.

Pistons...anything elseworth looking at? Are forged needed for my build?

Thanks,
Mark

 

[1967coronet440]

What's the budget like, do you have crank, rods, and pistons already? If not might as well just get a stroker kit from 440 source. Tell them you're goals and they'll set you up with a stroker kit to match up with the heads and cam.

 

[threewood]

What's the budget like, do you have crank, rods, and pistons already? If not might as well just get a stroker kit from 440 source. Tell them you're goals and they'll set you up with a stroker kit to match up with the heads and cam.

Budget is limited. I already have the crank and rods, they came out of the complete motor I have. Pistons will be order when my machinist knows how much cylinder he needs to clean up. I really want this build to be bullet proof so I want to keep it simple where I can.

 

[1967coronet440]

Budget is limited. I already have the crank and rods, they came out of the complete motor I have. Pistons will be order when my machinist knows how much cylinder he needs to clean up. I really want this build to be bullet proof so I want to keep it simple where I can.

Sounds like a pretty solid plan to me, only thing I would consider changing is maybe he heads, I would probably go with trickflow or Indy, they will make a bit more power. And since you mentioned you wanted it to be bulletproof I'm a firm believer in you get what you pay for, there's a reason stealth heads are priced the way they are. You can look on Hughes website they offer multiple Indy heads and the trick flow power port 240 which since being released seems the consensus is best out of the box head on the market.

 

[vintage chromoly]

I like the solid cam with the EDM lifters.
I also agree with the above poster on the heads.

 

[PurpleBeeper]

Just an opinion..... that looks like a pretty big cam & carburetor for a "driving around town" car & 3.55's seem too short for that cam/carb. Maybe either dial it down to a 750 vac. secondary and a cam more like a purple shaft 284/484 hydraulic OR go with 3.91/4.10 gears and forget about highway driving. Just my 2-cents.

 

[threewood]

Just looked at the Trickflow 240s, double the price of the stealth. Very nice, but I'm not sure if it is in the budget. Also looked at the Edelbrock rpm heads, 84cc chamber for $1482. Would this be a good compromise between the Stealths and Trickflow? Unless I find a bag of cash, I need to keep my spending somewhat reasonable as there is still a ton of odds and ends needed on the motor.

 

[1967coronet440]

Just looked at the Trickflow 240s, double the price of the stealth. Very nice, but I'm not sure if it is in the budget. Also looked at the Edelbrock rpm heads, 84cc chamber for $1482. Would this be a good compromise between the Stealths and Trickflow? Unless I find a bag of cash, I need to keep my spending somewhat reasonable as there is still a ton of odds and ends needed on the motor.

One thing to keep in mind with the head pricing , trick flow is the only true out of the box bolt on head out there that I know of, everything else will need to go to the machine shop for prep work, so factor that into your edelbrock and stealth head prices and your essentially spending the same amount as the trick flows. Also consult with your builder, just my 2 cents. Good luck with your build

 

[threewood]

Just an opinion..... that looks like a pretty big cam & carburetor for a "driving around town" car & 3.55's seem too short for that cam/carb. Maybe either dial it down to a 750 vac. secondary and a cam more like a purple shaft 284/484 hydraulic OR go with 3.91/4.10 gears and forget about highway driving. Just my 2-cents.

Thanks. I would like to keep the gearing so I can make some roadtrips on the highway. How does this cam look....http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/...&level2=RmxhdCBUYXBwZXQsIFNvbGlk&partid=30398

I really like the solid lifter cams! And the carb selection of 750 seems reasonable. I was basing the 850 cfm from an article on building a 440 where they used a 900 something cfm and thought the 850 would be a good compromise.

 

[threewood]

One thing to keep in mind with the head pricing , trick flow is the only true out of the box bolt on head out there that I know of, everything else will need to go to the machine shop for prep work, so factor that into your edelbrock and stealth head prices and your essentially spending the same amount as the trick flows. Also consult with your builder, just my 2 cents. Good luck with your build

Didn't figure that. What needs to be done with them before installing? I was going to swap springs for ones matched to the cam.

 

[Mike67]

Very similar goals...The parts on my shelf pistons are the 236's, Comp hydraualic XE275Hl 525/525, 110, 231/237, Eddy 84cc RPMs, RPM intake, ProMag Rockers, no carb yet but was planning on a 850, Dougs D452 ceramic headers, Dana 60 w 3.73, 2800 stall.
Ive been questioning the cam but the kit came with the shortblock.... youll probably have yours together before I do...

 

[vintage chromoly]

I wouldn't run any "ready to run heads" without a complete teardown, inspection, correction and reassembly by a good machinist.

 

[threewood]

Very similar goals...The parts on my shelf pistons are the 236's, Comp hydraualic XE275Hl 525/525, 110, 231/237, Eddy 84cc RPMs, RPM intake, ProMag Rockers, no carb yet but was planning on a 850, Dougs D452 ceramic headers, Dana 60 w 3.73, 2800 stall.
Ive been questioning the cam but the kit came with the shortblock.... youll probably have yours together before I do...

I'm not sure about that lol. I have too many irons in the fire. Car is still a shell and paying for the bottom end machine work and assembly on that takes priority. I will have a chance to debate what heads I can afford in the meantime

 

[1967coronet440]

I wouldn't run any "ready to run heads" without a complete teardown, inspection, correction and reassembly by a good machinist.

I believe Hughes offers a full machining service.

 

[Mike67]

I still have some panel work.... have to go through the front end before i start worrying about it in earnest...
If i could afford it i would do the Trickflow top end package...620hp on 10.5 440 if I remember correctly...I was looking for the build article again but cant find it...

 

[Mjcre]

Will the rpm performer manifold clear your hood? It would not clear when I dropped a 440 in my '69 RR.

 

[LemonWedge]

Looks like a solid plan. Very similar to my 451 combo. Are there better heads to choose from?, sure. For the money however, its tough to beat Stealths. Mine are going on 7 years, and I'm real happy with them; considering sending them to modern for a CNC port job. If the budget is tight, don't hesitate. They're a great street/strip head.
I think you'll come up a little short of your 525 goal. My similar combo with slightly more cam, slightly more compression, and a little lighter rotating assembly figures in (per performance) at about 510-515 depending on what calculator you use. I'm guessing the combo you outline will be right around 490-500, but with great low end torque.

Here are my suggestions:
1. Spend a little bit on a set of rods. I would not trust 40 year old stock rods in the 500 hp neighborhood, and your only going to want to build on this base as time goes on.
2. Don't be afraid of a little more cam. I run a solid flat tappet with 252* @ 50, and it's just fine on the street. At 245*, you're gonna wish you had gone bigger.
3. Don't scrimp on a converter. Your converter has the biggest effect on the combo of anything. Call a reputable company and talk to them about what you have and what you want to do, then take their advice.

Most of all.... Have fun!

 

[Mike67]

Here is the TF info on Summit, kit is $4k....

what are dyno results for hp and torque for this top end kit and with what bottom end (stock or )and compression etc. were results achieved with?
Asked by ANTHONY on October 09, 2016

A:
Thank you for your question. Trick Flow Specialties TFS-K616-620-576 makes 620 hp. and 576 lbs. of torque using a 446 c.i.d with flat top pistons, 10.5:1 compression with a 950 cfm. carburetor.

Summit Racing Answer - October 11, 2016

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[Fran Blacker]

I liked mike 67 cam choice but with solids. My question for lemon wedge is what rear gears is he running? If you are using main studs are you having align honed. A guy that lived next to me put main studs in and after tearing the motor down from problems. He asked me to look at his bearings. Thrust main had ware on opposite sides and he wondered why. Put the cap on and I saw that he didn't enlarge the holes in the cap so he could set the thrust.

 

[CoronetDarter]

My 440 build was very similar to yours except I went with a hyd FT from Hughes. For off-the-line performance it's important to match the gearing with the cam. If Dave Hughes recommends 3.70+ gears then that's what you should go with. Also dial in your stall too.