Distributor orientation

[pgaylord]

Basic question here - just got my '67 Satellite back from the shop where they did an engine swap (from a 318 to a 440). It's not running particularly well - my primary suspicion is the carb tune is way out of whack. But in the process of trying to troubleshoot a few basics I noticed that although the firing order is correct, the starting point of the "1" wire at the distributor is 180 degrees from where it is shown in all of the diagrams I've seen. Now, the engine does run, so I'm wondering if perhaps the shop installed the distributor 180 degrees from "normal", then, installed the wires 180 degrees to match. If that is indeed the case, does it really matter? It would seem to be a wash to me, but since it isn't running great overall I'm trying to rule everything out that I can.

Thanks!

 

[1967coronet440]

Take it back to the shop that did the swap

 

[mopar 3 B]

Correct assumption. If it has a factory intake just follow the fireing order from where ever #1 is to check the rest.

 

[WileERobby]

It will only matter if you can't physically turn the distributor for timing, if the vacuum advance interferes.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Take it back to the shop that did the swap

Not sure I would want to take it back to that shop.........................

 

[1967coronet440]

Not sure I would want to take it back to that shop.........................

Ya cant really argue that butttt at the same time he paid for a job to be done and it isn't... I would give them a chance maybe at first because after you start tinkering with it there's no way they can be held accountable, they'll give ya the old "you messed it up" routine.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Gives me a bad feeling when a shop lets that out the door!

 

[mopar 3 B]

Even in the best shops things happen. Tell them what you have done and the results and go from there.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

I have installed 180* out,but never a CAP!

 

[Daves69]

.................

 

[65wgn440]

Just pull distributor and reinstall at 180 degrees different. It can only go one way or the other. Change wires on cap and you are back to factory orientation, if they installed oil pump/dist driveshaft properly so you can get full timing adjustment, as other member mentioned.

 

[PurpleBeeper]

It will only matter if you can't physically turn the distributor for timing, if the vacuum advance interferes.

I have to agree with Wile-E on this one. It doesn't really matter as long as you have enough room to turn the distributor back & forth a little to adjust the timing. "Sometimes" the vacuum advance will hit something and limit how much you can turn the distributor. When that has happened to me, I just moved each spark plug wire (on the cap) over one position which basically, moves where the #1 cylinder wire is. The distributor doesn't care which wire is where as long as they're in the correct firing order & it's firing #1 (rotor pointing at #1 wire on the cap) when the engine is at top dead center on the #1 firing position for the motor. No biggie.

 

[Lionized]

Just pull distributor and reinstall at 180 degrees different. It can only go one way or the other. Change wires on cap and you are back to factory orientation, if they installed oil pump/dist driveshaft properly so you can get full timing adjustment, as other member mentioned.

This is what I did with my 383.
Find TDC on #1 with rocker cover off/coil disconnected. Pull cap, check rotor orientation.
If it's indeed out 180° pull it and orient it properly then re-do firing order.
Done.

 

[Cncguy1]

I don't think it will start if distributer is 180 out.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

I don't think it will start if distributer is 180 out.

No,it will not start.BUT,,,,if you change the ignition wires to the 180* out on the cao it will.....

 

[Lionized]

With the rotor out 180° AND the firing order matched what is happening is your #6 then becomes the #1.
It'll run...but not well.

 

[PurpleBeeper]

With the rotor out 180° AND the firing order matched what is happening is your #6 then becomes the #1.
It'll run...but not well.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with this. I've run my #1 wire (#1 cap position) at every single distributor cap tower many, many times. I've had my #1 all over the place & no problem whatsoever. As long as the timing is set, the firing order is correct, the wires are counterclockwise (B/RB), and the rotor points at #1 wire/tower when #1 is FIRING (not top of exhaust stroke) it'll run perfectly. As of this moment my #1 is located where Dave69's diagram says #6 should be and I'm laying rubber in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears....seems fine to me.

Or maybe I'm misunderstanding..... If you mean "distributor out 180-degrees", then I've done that about a dozen times and it WILL fire up, but spit fire & cough out of both the carb an exhaust & obviously not be right.

 

[Shorthorse]

It will only matter if you can't physically turn the distributor for timing, if the vacuum advance interferes.

Absolutly. The only other consideration is that most pre-made spark plug wire lengths are sized to the manufacturers recommended positioning of the distributor rotor.

 

[pgaylord]

Thanks for the replies everyone. The cap is installed on the distributor correctly (there's a slot), I just believe that the distributor itself is in 180 degrees out from "norm", and the #1 wire is where #6 is shown on Dave's diagram. I'll take a look at the vacuum diaphragm and if it's got a good range of motion I'll likely leave it as is. If not, it should be straightforward enough to flip it all around and re-wire.

I suspect the problem I'm seeing is just that the carb is woefully rich. In order to start it I need to prop open the choke flap otherwise it struggles mightily to idle until hot. And even then, to get it to idle decently when hot I have the throttle adjustment backed way out and the idle mix screws only out a half-turn from bottomed out. It's a brand new Quickfuel 750SS carb... seems really nice, but messing with anything beyond very basic adjustment I'd look to find someone with more expertise than myself. I'll give the shop a chance to fix this and a few other things... owner seems like a good guy and would work to make it right. If he struggles with it I'll take it to someone else to sort it out. It's summer, and I'd rather be driving than going back and forth to the shop.

 

[PurpleBeeper]

Thanks for the replies everyone. The cap is installed on the distributor correctly (there's a slot), I just believe that the distributor itself is in 180 degrees out from "norm", and the #1 wire is where #6 is shown on Dave's diagram. I'll take a look at the vacuum diaphragm and if it's got a good range of motion I'll likely leave it as is. If not, it should be straightforward enough to flip it all around and re-wire.

I suspect the problem I'm seeing is just that the carb is woefully rich. In order to start it I need to prop open the choke flap otherwise it struggles mightily to idle until hot. And even then, to get it to idle decently when hot I have the throttle adjustment backed way out and the idle mix screws only out a half-turn from bottomed out. It's a brand new Quickfuel 750SS carb... seems really nice, but messing with anything beyond very basic adjustment I'd look to find someone with more expertise than myself. I'll give the shop a chance to fix this and a few other things... owner seems like a good guy and would work to make it right. If he struggles with it I'll take it to someone else to sort it out. It's summer, and I'd rather be driving than going back and forth to the shop.

Distributor: IF you can't turn the distributor back & forth say 10-degrees or so each way (for timing adjustment) and IF your plug wires are long enough, then maybe just "leap-frog" the wires over one spot at a time (& repeat if necessary) while making appropriate timing adjustments (e.g. move the wires over 1-cap tower, turn distributor the same opposite direction 1-cap towers' worth, then re-set timing to be exact). This is basically keeping the rotor pointing at #1 after you "leap-frog" the wires.

Carb: I've had quite a few cars that didn't like the choke being on (& some that required it when closed). If it helps, you can bend the choke flap's little metal rod so that it can't close all the way when cold. For "Holley style" carburetors like Quickfuel, the "basic starting point before adjusting" for the idle mixture screws is roughly 1-1/2 full turns out on each side, then adjust from there. My "guess" is that you've got the carb set too lean at idle to compensate for the choke being closed (makes it rich) and the engine doesn't like it.