Looking for help/info on spring retainers, I broke one

[RT K_line]

I'm going to need a set of retainers and I don't want to go through this again. Can titanium retainers work on the street and is there a life expectancy on a steel retainer or any type retainer for that matter? These were 10 degree heavy duty supposedly. I bought the heads from RHS which turned out to be indy years ago and I only know that because I bought the open chamber heads for my step head pistons and received the closed chamber heads and had to ship them back. I have 13,000 miles on the engine and just want to know what type of retainer will go more than 20,000 miles with a 587 lift cam. Am I dreaming? Rant over, thanks for any input on brands or part #' that will help. 11/32 stems with single groove valve tips. Thanks in advance for any help you can give. Ken

 

[snakeoil24]

First Question did the body of the rocker arm hit the retainers? Must know this before you do any thing. Second Question where is the the rocker tip striking the valve tip. What is the Installed height of spring vs recommendation of Vendor..

 

[RT K_line]

First Question did the body of the rocker arm hit the retainers? Must know this before you do any thing. Second Question where is the the rocker tip striking the valve tip. What is the Installed height of spring vs recommendation of Vendor..

As far as the rocker arm hitting the retainer I didn't see anything during my preliminary inspection but I will be taking the shafts to work to clean and inspect. And I added the lash caps to help correct the rocker arm geometry which I'm aware of as being important to longevity. And as far as the proper spring and their setting I relied on the seller who did ask about what cam I planed on using to take care of that. Even if I had them rechecked like most say to do I would still have to rely on someone else's work which is hard to do with my background as a ASE certified mechanic for 25 years and a Master mechanic for 15 years. The lack of specialized equipment causes us to sometimes have to rely on others for their expertise. So without getting more off track in this post I will be checking out everything I can. Maybe it was a freak thing and I'm just looking for better options to prevent another failure all other things considered. I look to the members here for their expertise and advise. That's why I like and rely on FBBO, many more people with more knowlede than I have in these things. Thanks for your input everyone.

 

[snakeoil24]

Look close at the bottom of the rockers and see if you have any contact with retainers. Also how is the tip striking the valve seem??

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

13K was a good run.I have been using titanium retainers in the street for over 20 years. A guy with your knowledge should be able to check and measure.We can't do machine work,but when we bring something to be done you should know what the current measurement is and be able to doublecheck when your stuff comes back.

 

[RT K_line]

13K was a good run.I have been using titanium retainers in the street for over 20 years. A guy with your knowledge should be able to check and measure.We can't do machine work,but when we bring something to be done you should know what the current measurement is and be able to doublecheck when your stuff comes back.

I built the engine in 94 for my GTX and it sat on a stand for a couple of years before I got the heads that were the first offerings for the 440 at the time besides the B1s. I think I remember checking spring height with a dial caliper which is what I had at the time. So I guess titanium retainers are in my future.

 

[RT K_line]

Look close at the bottom of the rockers and see if you have any contact with retainers. Also how is the tip striking the valve seem??

Do you mean how the rocker sweeps across the valve tip. I checked to be sure the rocker stayed the same distance from center thru the entire travel, top to bottom.

 

[miller]

Curious, if you checked for any coil binding at full lift? How much clearance did you have?

 

[lewtot184]

I would think a chromemoly retainer would be near bullet proof on the street. titanium would work too but if I was driving i'd do chromemoly.

 

[gkent]

Do some research ... 10 degree retainers seem to be more prone to failure than a 7 degree.

 

[RT K_line]

Curious, if you checked for any coil binding at full lift? How much clearance did you have?

I' double check that on the other side that's still together and look for any indication on the spring that is off. Thanks

 

[IQ52]

That looks like a Comp Cams tool steel retainer. It is an excellent retainer. A 10 degree retainer might not be necessary for a cam less than .600" lift, but still should work. If it is a tool steel retainer, the failure may be just bad luck, or some of the potential problems that others are pointing out.

As to lash caps. I've never seen a lash cap actually correct a geometry problem on a shaft rocker system. More often than not it will make the rocker arm geometry worse. It may move the wipe pattern closer to the center of the valve tip, but that isn't necessarily a geometry correction. What a lash cap will do, is raise the rocker tip, and potentially move a portion of the rocker body closer to the retainer and valve spring. Generally to improve rocker geometry, in a shaft system, especially with roller tip rockers, you must move the rocker arm shaft up and away from the valve tip.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

When I changed to aluminum heads,had to buy a taller set of intake valves to get the geometry correct.Then had to get -50 retainers because they increased the spring pressure too much.Geometry is more crititical with more HP & rpm.
Spring pressure has to be right or it to be happy and live!

 

[Cranky]

I built the engine in 94 for my GTX and it sat on a stand for a couple of years before I got the heads that were the first offerings for the 440 at the time besides the B1s. I think I remember checking spring height with a dial caliper which is what I had at the time. So I guess titanium retainers are in my future.

Ti retainers actually wear a little faster than Cr Mo retainers....and here I am with several sets of Ti retainers sitting on the shelf lol. Hey, if they fit your needs, I'll sell a set cheap.

Do some research ... 10 degree retainers seem to be more prone to failure than a 7 degree.

That's a new one on me....but it's been years since I've done any kind of engine work.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Springs,,,,,retainers,,,pushrods,,,locks,,,,plenty of stuff on the shelf.Also have a few sets of pistons.Either 6 or 7 in a set.

 

[Cranky]

Springs,,,,,retainers,,,pushrods,,,locks,,,,plenty of stuff on the shelf.Also have a few sets of pistons.Either 6 or 7 in a set.

View attachment 549735

Well...my Ti retainers are new

 

[RT K_line]

Well...my Ti retainers are new

Are they for 3/8 valves or 11/32 valves. I'm thinking of putting on a set of 906s I had done before I bought these eddys. They were ready to put on untile I changed direction. They need to be resurfaced because they sat so long and have some rust pitting but they are heavily ported. It would be a nice comparison. What do you consider cheap? No Idea what they normally go for compared to steel. PM me more info. Thanks Ken

 

[miller]

I' double check that on the other side that's still together and look for any indication on the spring that is off.

Suggest checking at least one int/exh valve, on both banks, just to see if they fall about the same.
Think I remember, and #s I've always used, minimum total of .050. Average the gaps between each coil, and add 'em up. That's on iron heads...aluminum, maybe more, maybe less, I flat can't tell you, since I've never run them. Possible the other guys can tell you.

 

[lewtot184]

.060" clearance between coils. i'm not in love with any of those iron rockers on high lift/high spring load cams. geometry can be a mess.

 

[RT K_line]

I think I added the lash cap primarily because of the roller lifters. The push rod cup sat down so many thousands on an inch lower than stock and I found a cap that was about the same to make up for it. I don't recall the exact spec as it was some time ago. It may have been the wrong way to go about it but I didn't see an issue at the time. It was back before the internet was everywhere at least for me the only info was the library or magazines. Thanks for chiming in I hoped you would as I know this is your specialty. Ken