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Looking for help with 4 speed I.D.

superslant

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Hey there everyone. Thanks in advance.
I pulled an 18 spline trans out of my uncles 70 Coronet r/t 440 6 pack car that was destroyed in a fire. Luckily it got snuffed out before the motor and trans got very hot. I am just looking for information on the transmission as I am not sure that it was original to this car. Here are some pics. Any info is greatly appreciated.
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That transmission is 69 and back,70 would have two shifter mounting pads.
 
That transmission is 69 and back,70 would have two shifter mounting pads.
That's what I was thinking but I heard that some early 70's cars could have come with the single shifter mount. Just have to go by the numbers on the case I would suspect.....?
 
Looks like the first two digits are 8G, then 342670. This is the last eight of the VIN
1968..
 
See if you can clean up that raised pad that has the stamping that ends with "342670". Right under that should be PP833, then 4 digits for the 10,000 day date code, then the sequential assembly number for the units built that day. I can just barely see the "PP" of the "PP833", so if you can clean it up and see the rest of the numbers, you will know what date is was assembled and the assembly number.

Brewer's Performance has a good page that helps identify 4spd transmissions. I am attaching the example they show on their page.

I just looked up the MaxWedge 10,000 day calculator and the one in the example from Brewer's Performance (shown below as "3055") comes out to Monday, December 8th, 1969 and was apparently the 405th one built.

Link to that calendar is
http://maxwedge.com/articles/10k.php


IDPad.jpg
 
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I saved those two pictures of your raised pad so I could zoom in on them to try and read the date code. I could just barely make out the "PP833", but couldn't see the rest. It almost looks like someone ground that face and re-stamped the numbers (Might be why they are so crooked when compared to the example posted). Which might explain the crescent shaped mark that looks like it could be the edge of a grinding wheel right behind the "22" of the casting number.
 
The 68' VIN stamps were in many cases very poorly done, as if they were an after thought. The quality of the VIN stamps on my 68's look exactly like the eight digits seen here, The original 68 stamps for the engine and automatic transmission were on the rear leading edge of the block and mated surface for the trans,but it was a very difficult place to put numbers neatly. by 69' locations and the quality of the markings Improved, and looked much more professional.
 
The 68' VIN stamps were in many cases very poorly done, as if they were an after thought. The quality of the VIN stamps on my 68's look exactly like the eight digits seen here, The original 68 stamps for the engine and automatic transmission were on the rear leading edge of the block and mated surface for the trans,but it was a very difficult place to put numbers neatly. by 69' locations and the quality of the markings Improved, and looked much more professional.
Engine and AT transmission I agree.....4spd ID pad I disagree. Show me a 68 4spd ID pad that matches the one above...
 
I agree they do not appear like what most numbers look like, and agree they aren't uniform looking. But, my brother was the service manager at a Dodge dealer in 1968. They were under strict Instructions, that when under warranty any engine or trans that was replaced and had a VIN, the same VIN was to be stamped on the new unit prior to replacement. So, The average mechanic back then had a warranty engine or trans sitting on the bench, which means you got what you got. Those numbers were for theft purposes only back then, so as long as it had a number, they conformed to the rules.
Another tipoff is if you look closely at the numbers, they appear to be in the same shape as the numbers stamped on the radiator support, and they are poorly aligned as well. I have a 71 four speed on the shelf, so I will dig it out and take a picture.But it looks as crappy as the one posted here.
 
I agree they do not appear like what most numbers look like, and agree they aren't uniform looking. But, my brother was the service manager at a Dodge dealer in 1968. They were under strict Instructions, that when under warranty any engine or trans that was replaced and had a VIN, the same VIN was to be stamped on the new unit prior to replacement. So, The average mechanic back then had a warranty engine or trans sitting on the bench, which means you got what you got. Those numbers were for theft purposes only back then, so as long as it had a number, they conformed to the rules.
Another tipoff is if you look closely at the numbers, they appear to be in the same shape as the numbers stamped on the radiator support, and they are poorly aligned as well. I have a 71 four speed on the shelf, so I will dig it out and take a picture.But it looks as crappy as the one posted here.
Again show me a picture of an original 4spd ID pad stamped by the factory matching that.....

Things stamped outside the factory, warranty anything etc is illegal and not original.....
 
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Warranty replacement is something I hadn't thought of and may be a good point.

To the original poster,.... Do those numbers match up with the VIN#? Just curious....
 
Well all you detectives out there are focusing on the mismatch of pad numbers and see the inconsistency. Likely true. But you are missing a key clue. The extension housing is a unique early 70 model year B body housing 99621 C# with two trans mount pads. This tells me it is a 1970 trans.
 
good catch! I didn't see the 2 mount pads. Could be the trans was assembled from numerous transmissions, who knows. The issue of the irregular distance is common in 68' as Chrysler didn't use gang stamps at every factory assembly plant. Also, It is common knowledge that stamps were voluntary until mid year 68', and Mopar took their time. Many others here I am sure do know that some dealers did stamp warranty Blocks, and I do know of one who did. I asked for clarification Today from my brother, and he stated as a policy no they didn't. But they were allowed to if the Customer requested it for the 68' model. and all work was followed up with thorough documentation, and attached to the warranty history of the car. he also stated he had no Idea what policies were in place for later models, as he left Mopar in 1969.

Grantedthis was not done very often, as the actual failure rate of engines and transmissions as a percentage of total production was low. But it did happen.

This question not only affects Mopar fans, just take a gander at the Chevy sites with all the pictures of misaligned and poorly stamped blocks in the late 60's. They take it for granted.(chevelle site)
 
Well all you detectives out there are focusing on the mismatch of pad numbers and see the inconsistency. Likely true. But you are missing a key clue. The extension housing is a unique early 70 model year B body housing 99621 C# with two trans mount pads. This tells me it is a 1970 trans.
Good eye...honestly it is hard to see from the pics the other mount but after you pointed that out I do see it...:thumbsup:

I agree it is probably a 70 trans....
 
good catch! I didn't see the 2 mount pads. Could be the trans was assembled from numerous transmissions, who knows. The issue of the irregular distance is common in 68' as Chrysler didn't use gang stamps at every factory assembly plant. Also, It is common knowledge that stamps were voluntary until mid year 68', and Mopar took their time. Many others here I am sure do know that some dealers did stamp warranty Blocks, and I do know of one who did. I asked for clarification Today from my brother, and he stated as a policy no they didn't. But they were allowed to if the Customer requested it for the 68' model. and all work was followed up with thorough documentation, and attached to the warranty history of the car. he also stated he had no Idea what policies were in place for later models, as he left Mopar in 1969.

Grantedthis was not done very often, as the actual failure rate of engines and transmissions as a percentage of total production was low. But it did happen.

This question not only affects Mopar fans, just take a gander at the Chevy sites with all the pictures of misaligned and poorly stamped blocks in the late 60's. They take it for granted.(chevelle site)

If true then provide an example, that is all......

Personally, I have never seen a warranty block VIN stamped....

Your brother nailed the truth....
 
FWIW....I've seen some pretty sloppy stamping on 68's but nothing quite that bad. My question is not how sloppy it is but the fonts. To me...they do not appear factory.

There is some very ambiguous language in the parts book about dealers replacing factory numbers on warranty blocks. It's vague and couched with 'pending state and local laws' so could a dealer have restamped a warranty block? Sure. Possibly. I don't know.....

I do know that the second letter in the VIN stamp is not a "G". 68 STL VINs don't go that high. If that second letter is a B (Hamtramck plant..like below) then it makes sense. That would make it an early April of 1968 car.

The key to determining what it is does rely on cleaning the rest of the pad to determining the assembly date.

My two cents....

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My second comment is "the car is destroyed" This trans has no original car to go back into. All the internals can be switched into another case to better match a new car. Or the trans can be refreshed and installed in any other new application and USED. Countless other blocks and trannys have been retro installed in new applications.
 
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