So Close to Hitting the Track!

[65CopCar]

Thought I might be ready for T&T tonight but came up a day short.

Background - built a new motor in 2019. Then moved in 2021 so that put the car on the back burner. Went to take it to the track last October and had no neutral or reverse - went forward. Brand new transmission and converter. Transmission was fully contaminated and only ran 15 - 20 minutes - never found out from what or why no neutral or reverse.

Had to replace the mufflers with the new headers. Finally got it done. Had to replace the driveshaft loop to clear the mufflers. Took me about 25 hours to fabricate and install the driveshaft loop! But came out real good.

So hopefully will hit the track (if the transmission works!) in the next couple of weeks. Hoping to make Moparty next month.

 

[dvw]

If it had no neutral or reverse there is a good chance the rear clutch is seized. The rear clutch is applied in all forward gears. But released in N, R, and P. If there is to much clutch clearance it can flip the Belleville spring and jam up.
Doug

 

[biomedtechguy]

it can flip the Belleville spring and jam up.

Lol.. Automatic transmission tech is one area I struggle with.
I know you aren't doing this, but someone telling me an auto trans "flipped the Belleville spring" sounds like someone saying I need to "add blinker fluid and a 15 pound can of vacuum" to fix a problem.

 

[65CopCar]

If it had no neutral or reverse there is a good chance the rear clutch is seized. The rear clutch is applied in all forward gears. But released in N, R, and P. If there is to much clutch clearance it can flip the Belleville spring and jam up.
Doug

I was there when the tranny was torn down. We didn't see anything wrong at all with the exception of heavy contamination. We specifically looked at the clutch clearance and the Belleville washer. We really thought at that time the converter was bad but the converter guy says it was fine and only had minor contamination in it.

The motor ran for maybe 15 to 20 minutes and I only drove it around the yard for about a minute.

Quite troubling to me that did not find a smoking gun. Rick Allison did give me one potential source for the contamination but its speculation at this point.

 

[dvw]

Lol.. Automatic transmission tech is one area I struggle with.
I know you aren't doing this, but someone telling me an auto trans "flipped the Belleville spring" sounds like someone saying I need to "add blinker fluid and a 15 pound can of vacuum" to fix a problem.

Theis spring keeps the clutch plates separated in the rear clutch. If the clutch plates are compressed by a failure or the clutch is applied by the valve body it will cause the output shaft to move the car forward in reverse and neutral.
Doug

 

[biomedtechguy]

Theis spring keeps the clutch plates separated in the rear clutch. If the clutch plates are compressed by a failure or the clutch is applied by the valve body it will cause the output shaft to move the car forward in reverse and neutral.
Doug

Thank you Doug.
If I ever wanted an education on the automatic transmission, I definitely would want to be in your class!

 

[65CopCar]

Disgusted. Tranny still broke. Will start a new thread.

 

[dvw]

Though pulling it isn't all that much fun. It'll be an easy fix.
Doug

 

[65CopCar]

Though pulling it isn't all that much fun. It'll be an easy fix.
Doug

Once I figure out what is actually wrong. Clearly we missed it the first time.

Honestly now that I have a lift and I know how to do it it should be not too hard. I have a good engine support bracket now and a good transmission jack.

The only question is whether I can get the #1 header tube out without removing the driver side midplate bracket. I trimmed the bracket to try to get the tube to clear. Taking the bracket off is a pain.

 

[biomedtechguy]

good transmission jack.

I bought what appears to be the same transmission jack from Harbor Freight.
"I keep it" (or he kept it-lol) at my best friend and Mopar brother's big assed garage about 20 minutes away. He makes use of it, most often on his 88 Conquest with a 2JZ big single turbo setup.
Anyway, the first time I and he together wrestled with my 833 and then 855 I knew I needed one for INSTALLATIONS. I can pull the transmission out on jackstands and me alone under the car (although I have a shorty transmission rolling jack for help) It seems no matter what I do the transmission wants to fight me going in the last few inches, and I think I know all the right things to do at that point, it's just not that easy anymore. FWIW using threaded rods on opposite corners and nuts to pull it in to get it flush w/the bellhousing and ready for bolts has been my best method (making certain everything is lined up first of course)

 

[65CopCar]

If it had no neutral or reverse there is a good chance the rear clutch is seized. The rear clutch is applied in all forward gears. But released in N, R, and P. If there is to much clutch clearance it can flip the Belleville spring and jam up.
Doug

No surprise, certainly looks like you are correct. I took the valve body off and did an air test. Front clutch was fine but the rear clutch failed the air test.

What I don't understand is how this could happen twice in a row. My guy is not a novice, far from it. I was there when he tore it down last time. The Belleville looked fine and the clearance was good. I'm at a loss.

I ordered basically all wear parts and a Belleville spring from A&A. My cousin's buddy does transmissions for a living and I really like what he brings to the table - he is **** like me. We will be tearing it down and fixing it over thanksgiving.

Wish me luck this go around!

 

[biomedtechguy]

Wish me luck this go around

Thanks for the report and good luck!

 

[65CopCar]

Well my tranny guy messed up. He didn't put my stator back in it. Its wrong. The ports are totally different and that's why it failed the air test.

 

[kiwigtx]

I have a good engine support bracket now and a good transmission jack.

Don't let this clown help you.....

He's not that good at removing transmissions.

 

[padam]

Talk about getting ****…

 

[65CopCar]

Well appears it was a comedy of errors. I believe I now have it figured out. Had/has the wrong input shaft hub, but can deal with that. It incorrectly has the groove for the third seal. Will just ignore the third seal.

The big thing is the reaction support (stator support) was wrong. It never engaged the rear clutch because the rear clutch activate port was on the face of the support and not between the seal rings. The support was changed to accommodate the third seal which was not supposed to be there........

 

[65CopCar]

I have figured out the root cause. With the wrong (78 up) reaction support, the rear clutch sees converter pressure hence it going forward in all gears.

 

[biomedtechguy]

I have figured out the root cause.