Well, I've had enough of this 440 Mystery Motor

[moparedtn]

Greetings, all. hope everyones' holidays are going great.
For those who maybe don't remember (or never saw to begin with), my '68 GTX came with what I've come to call the "mystery motor" 440.
From what I can tell, it's a mid-70's block with what looks like the internals from the original '68 engine in it. Can't say for sure, but that's what it looked like.
It was reportedly "rebuilt" by the now-deceased former owner, for what that's worth.
The engine has an appetite for cam lobes, pushrods, etc., having now eaten one of each.

It had a set of mid-60's 361/383 heads on it that looked like ***, so I recently replaced them with a set of fresh from the machine shop 906's, along with new pushrods, lifters and cam (all Comp Cams, mild grind stuff).
Oil pressure is pretty darn good, according to my nifty mechanical gauge I installed.
(If you get some time, read some of my old threads on here - let's just say this car has been a pain in the....errr, "challenging" at times).

So anyways, it's unseasonably warm yesterday, so I decide to get her out and run some errands in town. After getting some gas back up into the carb, it fired right off and sounded ok going into town.
Coming back home, however, old gremlins raised their heads and she started idling rough, wanting to stall and popping/backfiring a little on throttle off deceleration.
Then I heard all-too-familiar sounds coming from drivers' rear of the engine - yep, clatter that sounded like lifters not pumping up/rockers smacking valve stems, all in time to the rough thumping of the engine.

Well, that was it for me. Got it home, pulled it into the garage, did a few 5000+rpm blowouts on it just to see if it would totally let go, then shut it down.

I'm done with this engine.
Done.
What has been a six year effort of surviving cancer (3 times now - yay me!) and re-doing every system on this car to make it fully functioning again brings me to the inevitable - time to put the "forever" engine in it once and for all.
I only want to do this one last time - engine swapping literally kills me at this stage of life and health, so I might have it in me one more time.
A side motivation in all this is that I will NOT leave a car apart for my wife to deal with, should the grim reaper finally win next time, either.

So I ask you all, most knowledgeable folks of FBBO - given what's left of my checking account (thanks, Obamacare!) what is my best bet here? Try to rebuild this one, or go fetch another?
Much appreciated, as always.

 

[khryslerkid]

That really sucks!

Was the engine totally disassembled and cleaned after the last cam wipe?

Could you give us some details on your valve train combination. Cam, lifters, springs.

 

[BeeKool]

Sorry about your luck. For what it's worth that is a beautiful car.
Alot of us will be watching this thread and learning from it.

 

[burntorng70]

That sucks! Wish you were closer I'd work on it for you. Have you thought about a roller cam? There might be some underlying problem, or maybe just bad luck in metallurgy.

 

[Cranky]

I know a lot of people have had good results with Comp Cams but there's been too many others who have had lousy results with them. That would be my first thing to change. Sounds like the bottom end 'was' ok but with damage going on in the valve train, doing the 5000+ rpm blowout sure wasn't the right thing to do. I do understand the frustration though. The first order of business is to tear it down. With problem engines, I like to inspect each part as it comes off to get a good look at what might be going on. Measure everything to make sure it's within the specs it's supposed to be. It's tedious work....but....

 

[furyus]

You should verify that it's the cam before you go too far. I rebuilt an engine, and heard that same noise. Turns out the Edelbrock push rods were eating themselves. New pushrods, and all good. I would rebuild this engine. Run break in oil from Comp Cams.

 

[the mississippi madman]

Does it have the wrong pushrods, are you getting good oil flow to the upper end?

 

[mopar 3 B]

Thought you really had it wipped this time. Have you got in contact with Comp yet? I know it is more than likely a waste of time but would be intresting to hear their course of action.
But as Chranky said this needs to be pulled apart and everthing looked at.

 

[Beekeeper]

Ed,
If you wanna pull it let me know I will come help you.

 

[kiwigtx]

Ed,
If you wanna pull it let me know I will come help you.

This is exactly why FBBO is such a cool place to hang out.

 

[moparedtn]

That really sucks!
Was the engine totally disassembled and cleaned after the last cam wipe?
Could you give us some details on your valve train combination. Cam, lifters, springs.

Here's the thread where I put the 906's on there:
http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/mopar...lls-a-fresh-set-of-906s-on-the-ol-440.117561/

Keep in mind, it wiped a couple lobes on the then-new Mopar purpleshaft that it came with before this Comp Cams one, which I attributed (mistakenly, apparently) to the use of synthetic oil with no zinc.

I'd have to dig more to find the cam swap thread, but it's on here somewheres.
Comp Cam is a rather mild one in the 470 lift area; lifters and pushrods are also Comp Cams, stock units.

 

[moparedtn]

Sorry about your luck. For what it's worth that is a beautiful car.
Alot of us will be watching this thread and learning from it.

Much appreciate the kind words, BK.
I've made it this far and replaced/repaired pretty much everything else on the car;
I was just hoping this old 440 would behave for a little bit so I could catch my breath monetarily.
Who am I kidding there, eh?
Things are what they are medically - and apparently it cost a lot of @#%$ money to keep an Ed alive these days.
Wife thinks it's worth the money; I'm dubious on the return on investment.

 

[khryslerkid]

Do like Furyus said. Analyse what happened first. Might just be a pushrod.

Good luck

 

[moparedtn]

That sucks! Wish you were closer I'd work on it for you. Have you thought about a roller cam? There might be some underlying problem, or maybe just bad luck in metallurgy.

That's very kind of you. Humbling. I ain't nobody.
Well, I reckon we can rule out parts quality issues, since it keeps doing the same ol' thing regardless of what ones I put in there.
If I was a betting man, I'd about bet there's something wrong deep in the block somewhere with the oil galleys - perhaps the #4 cam bearing isn't installed correctly, restricting flow up top? Who knows.

 

[moparedtn]

I know a lot of people have had good results with Comp Cams but there's been too many others who have had lousy results with them. That would be my first thing to change. Sounds like the bottom end 'was' ok but with damage going on in the valve train, doing the 5000+ rpm blowout sure wasn't the right thing to do. I do understand the frustration though. The first order of business is to tear it down. With problem engines, I like to inspect each part as it comes off to get a good look at what might be going on. Measure everything to make sure it's within the specs it's supposed to be. It's tedious work....but....

Thanks for replying, Cranky. Always an honor, sir.
If not for the fact it did similar things with the purpleshaft that came before the Comp Cam, I'd be more inclined to agree.
Eh, by the time I got it back in the garage, I just knew I was done with that motor - I'd reached that point.
Frustrated goosing of the motor wasn't going to change things a bit, just wanted to see if it would toss any blue smoke or something.
I didn't over-rev it, just rapped it hard a few times, which it did without protest.

As much as economics would indicate I try to rebuild this engine, I've already decided not to, regardless of whatever evidence may have appeared upon professional inspection.
The dang thing has worn out its' welcome.
I'll find another one, one way or the other.

 

[moparedtn]

You should verify that it's the cam before you go too far. I rebuilt an engine, and heard that same noise. Turns out the Edelbrock push rods were eating themselves. New pushrods, and all good. I would rebuild this engine. Run break in oil from Comp Cams.

I checked out lifter pre-load, rather rudimentary I'll admit, when I put the 906's on at the same time. When the rocker shafts were torqued to spec, pre-load was certainly in the ballpark, so I wasn't too concerned about it.
Of course on the break in oil; also use the high high high zinc oil in her, too.

 

[moparedtn]

Does it have the wrong pushrods, are you getting good oil flow to the upper end?

That's what I'm coming up with for the theory - something is keeping proper oiling from occurring up top somewhere, probably a galley in the block or a cam bearing.

 

[moparedtn]

Thought you really had it wipped this time. Have you got in contact with Comp yet? I know it is more than likely a waste of time but would be intresting to hear their course of action.
But as Chranky said this needs to be pulled apart and everthing looked at.

Naw, not going to call Comp. This isn't their fault, I'm almost positive.
Yep, more out of curiosity than anything else, I'd like to find out what the issue is, even though I have no intention of keeping the dang thing.

 

[moparedtn]

Ed,
If you wanna pull it let me know I will come help you.

Wow, that's VERY generous of you. Thanks!
Still mulling over what the battle plan is here; still digging through all sorts of sites online, CL, anywhere really that has an RB for sale at this point.

Another approach is to find a "date correct" short block and start the build there, if that's what you folks think is best?
Numbers matching is long gone, but maybe date correct is the next best thing, especially since a '68 bottom end is gonna almost assuredly be forged, right?

 

[moparedtn]

This is exactly why FBBO is such a cool place to hang out.

Yeah, I kinda like it here myself....and it goes even further for me.
When I was laid up from all the whacking and cutting one time is when I stumbled across this particular site, having been active on some others over the years.
Something told me that despite the goofy interface, there was something special about this one.
Turns out, there is.
I've always said there's something different about the Mopar community - that you don't really meet many strangers who are into Mopars out there, just comrades you hadn't met before.
The word camaraderie is most appropriate in this case.
I called on a couple CL ads today and found that to be the case yet again, in fact.