What engine oil to use?

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  1. fjr

    fjr Member

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  2. Al Zangenberg

    Al Zangenberg Well-Known Member

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    Mike, & the rest of the Gang... "What was discovered through oil testing by several engine component manufacturers is that many older engines experience a short period of time during engine start-up where critical lubrication is insufficient between metal-to-metal lubrication points when using modern oils with reduced amounts of ZDDP/ZDTP. These same enhancers unfortunately have their downside: The phosphorus in this compound creates carbon buildup in engine bores and valvetrains, and both compounds can also lead to the early demise of catalytic converters. For this reason, the industry has been phasing out zinc and phosphorus levels since 1994, when the American Petroleum Institute’s SH designation became the industry standard, and levels have been further reduced in each subsequent API rating for engine oils. Manufacturers have tried adding more boron to offset the effects of the reduced zinc and phosphorus levels; however, the dry start protection does not measure up to those using more ZDDP/ZDTP. This has opened up a whole new market for zinc/phosphorus additives for oil and many camshaft and engine manufacturers now recommend that an additive be used in initial break-in and for regular use."

    Now we all know why ZDDP is not recommended for new engines...

    "When anyone mentions zinc, they are actually referring to zinc dialkyldithiophosphate, a compound invented by Castrol for use in mineral-based oils or zinc di-thiophosphate (ZDTP), which is normally used in synthetic oils. Both have been used as an anti-wear ingredient in engine oil for many years. The zinc and phosphorus ingredients appear to be most effective when they are used together. ZDDP/ZDTP is one of many additives that are put into conventional motor oil to improve its lubrication qualities. Other ingredients such as boron and molybdenum are also added as lubricant enhancers."

    Now me... If you are a true believer in the benefits, & superiority of synthetic engine oil lubricants, Royal Purple Motor Oil, Amsoil, & Red Line Motor Oil are "T-R-U-E" synthetics. They are NOT petroleum based oils. (Read: Not derived from dead dinosaurs). If there are others, forgive me. Redline Motor Oil, is a polyoester (sp?) oil, derived from a bean! Royal Purple, & Amsoil, have ZDDP. Not sure about Redline, but they do have a ZDDP additive available.

    "Mobile 1" (and countless others), are NOT "True" synthetics. Period. (Exclamation points, 3 - too!!!). As an example, Mobile 1 originally claimed their oil was a synthetic (Nope!). However, the U.S. Govt. (Or someone of the like), have "lessened/loosened" the restrictions on what can be advertised as a synthetic engine oil. But again, petroleum based.
    Mobile 1...& the other petroleum based "synthetics" :rolleyes: do have synthetic additives. But, they are not true synthetic oils! Think of it this way... Straight single viscosity engine oil 30W, 40W etc. - all are thicker viscosity when cold, & thinner viscosity when hot. Multi viscosity engine oils 10W30 etc. have synthetic additives, to make them react in a totally opposite state. They remain 10W in freezing temps (ambient air temp), and have the wear properties of a 30 weight oil, when hot. Confused yet? I know I am! :wtf:

    ZDDP is technically: zinc dialkyldithiophosphate. (No need-to-cuss, right?) lol. That's Zinc, and that weird scientific Herman Munster word - is in essence: Molybdenum disulfide, or Moly-B, as it's known to some. Two elements: molybdenum & sulfur. Moly B, is similar to graphite. (The black thing in a wooden lead pencil, that contains no lead!) Me thinks... Both graphite, & Moly B are great lubricants, that have a chemical tendency to "cling" (non-tech nomenclature), to metal (Graphite). Works great in door lock cylinders. Pants zippers too! Moly B is the best, for moving metal parts, motorcycle chains, cam lobes, lifters, etc. as it doesn't sling-off!

    In 1964, & 1965, when I worked in the Cam Dept. @ CRANE ENGINEERING/CRANE CAMS - I did a "Parco-Lubrite" process to all the new cams, with the exception of the roller cams. There were three hot tanks; a rinse, the parco-lubrite, & another rinse. The Parco Lubrite, was made-up of zinc phosphate, & manganese phosphate coatings, that produced an oil-absorptive coating - which permits rapid break-in of camshaft & lifters.

    The cam journals were taped, to avoid them getting the darkened hot/wet coating. I was just 18 & 19 then, but I think the reason the cam bearing journals weren't coated, is because the oil-from the oil pump flow starts there in the engine, and there is no load on the cam journals. The cam & lifters of course, is another story The purpose was to help eliminate "scuffing" the cam lobes (and lifter faces), upon initial engine start-up, with the new cam. Also, Crane Cams recommended a can of GM (yep! the General), Engine Oil Supplement be used on the cam & lifters, directly prior to engine start-up. I believe that GM product is no longer available from General Motors. What was it? Molybdenum disulfide! (That swell greasy kid stuff!).

    Crane Cams also recommended (they're not the only ones that do/did), & it's extremely critical, that upon start-up with a new engine, and/or cam & lifters that the engine be run at a minimum of 2,000 to 2,500 RPM's (for the first 30 minutes, no load), to avoid scuffing the cam & lifters. More critical with high-rate spring pressures, and cams. "N-E-V-E-R" allow a new engine to idle, after initial start-up!

    Remember too...that many cam & lifter failures at present (initial start-up), are typically the result of four things:
    1. Junk cam billets from Mexico, and/or China. All Crane Cams new cam billets came from Melling Tool Co. in Michigan.
    2. No special cam & lifter lube used.
    3. Allowing engine RPM to be at curb idle. Realizing many race engines idle very fast, but 1,000, or even 1,500 RPM is a no-no on initial start-up.
    4. Using the "new" engine oil, w/o ZDDP (or the like).

    A tad off-topic...Crane used two kinds of camshafts from Melling Tool Co. One that was steel, and the other that was high-speed endurall steel. The less expensive was for hydraulic lifters, and street use. The H.S.E. steel was for the more radical flat tappet, & roller cams. (Just like a cast steel crank, and a forged steel crank). the latter, being the best, and the most durable, where needed, accordingly...

    That old additive Lead (led) - that no longer exists in typical gasoline, acted as a lubricant (Cushion, if-you-will), and helped reduce combustion chamber heat for the valve seats, & valve faces. But that's another topic.
    Cheers!
    AL :thumbsup:
    P.S. Good-'ole STP, contains ZDDP! Remember...the engine life you save, is the result of the oil you use. As we all know: Change oil & filter often. Just that thin layer of oil, separating all engine parts, is critical - EVERYTIME you start the engine, new, used, or otherwise...

    P.P.S. It has always struck me funny, when I read: The "primary" purpose of an engine/motor oil, is to cool the engine. Yes, the oil does help dissipate engine heat. Lubrication, is then secondary???!!! HAH!:realcrazy:
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2017
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 2
    • Moparallen

      Moparallen Active Member

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      Small Quanity Generators are allowed to add some anti wear additives back in their additive pack. I know for a fact that Kawasaki brand oils sold at OPE shops has 1200 ppm zinc and is available in grades straight 30, 10-30, 10-40, and 20-50. It also sales for about $6.00 a quart. You may not believe me but it has an API label and the dealer can get you a MSDS.
      Check it for yourself. Some of the other Air cooled engine manufacturers may have the same stuff for a lot less than we are paying now.
       
    • Superb Bee

      Superb Bee Well-Known Member

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      I use amsoil in all my vehicles, if its a ft cam then I add comp cams 159 at every oil change.
      note if you buy your oil from amsoil directly and join their club the prices are amazing. Its like full wholesale and free shipping. I buy everything in cases so at my local speed shop for instance a single qt of signature synthetic is $13 plus tax, through the website with the account buying a case at a time I pay $8 shipped each.
      Z-rod 20-50 ends up around $7.50 and the OE synthetic I use in all the trucks and regular cars ends up around $3.80 a qt...
      Plus they send coupons once and a while, they sell filters and other stuff too, pretty good website tools, I have to say I am happy with the memberships, I renew ever 6 months, and normally the first order pays for the membership and then some.

      I save around $200 a year when I change the oil in my compressor (over the manufacturers oil, rotary screw oil is $$$ and they sell a good product for short money)...
       
    • 493 Mike

      493 Mike FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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      I'm going with the Brad Penn 20W-50. Thanks for all the advise fellas!
      Mike
       
    • 383man

      383man Well-Known Member

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      Valvoline VR1 racing oil is all I ever use. I have never run a roller as all my engines are flat tappet cams and I have never wiped a cam. Good luck , Ron