What is your opinion on VIN swaps?

[NJRR]

Just to play devil's advocate, everything is relative. Is there a difference between taking a donor car and using all the parts to fix a total rust bucket with nothing salvagable except the vin tag and rad support and then claiming that as a restored original car or between swapping the vin tag and rad support from that same rust bucket onto that same donor car? The end result is the same. You have a restored car with the vin tag and rad support identifiers.

 

[cr8crshr]

It's.....It's just not right!!!! It's a false representation. Nothing more and nothing less. There can be absolutely no logical discussion as to whether it is acceptable or not as well. I find it rather disconcerting that one would even have an inkling in that direction. Yes it has been raised numerous times on this forum and others. In the end I would never do it and I stand by that conviction. It's my opinion and that is that...cr8crshr/Tuck

 

[Budnicks]

VIN swap, made up Fender Tags or swaps of them too
{like a member/restoration/parts business owner here was doing for some lame "concept", allegedly approved by FCA}
&/or re-bodies, dash swapping or altering rad support
or trunk drip rails etc. to retain the VIN etc.
"are just so wrong in so many ways"
fraud is still fraud, no matter how someone tries to spin it...

Deceptive BS, crooks shysters, flippers, con's

They're only original once, as to the VIN/Body

if you do something like that it better be disclosed your doing it,
it's a federal offence, if found guilty, it's punishable by imprisonment...

 

[Kern Dog]

this site and many others are full of guys who cobble together a solid body and "swap" their VIN into it.......... it's call "restoring rusty, smashed junk"

I guess I am one of the lucky ones, my car retains about 60% of its original body....... how bout yours?

Mine? Regarding the body, the only things not original are the right fender and about 1/3 of the trunk floor.

 

[Kern Dog]

Just to play devil's advocate, everything is relative. Is there a difference between taking a donor car and using all the parts to fix a total rust bucket with nothing salvagable except the vin tag and rad support and then claiming that as a restored original car or between swapping the vin tag and rad support from that same rust bucket onto that same donor car? The end result is the same. You have a restored car with the vin tag and rad support identifiers.

I've seen it described as taking a VIN, suspending it in the air and driving a nicer car under it.
I'd rather see a car maintain its factory structural integrity. I am impressed with the skills it takes to put a rusty jigsaw puzzle back together. I've done quarter skins, metal fab and bodywork but when I see people post projects where nothing remains behind the C pillar, I am shocked and amazed. Maybe the work is done at or above OEM standards but I'd still prefer an unmolested intact car. I may be spoiled out here in the West though. If I kept coming across rusty cars day after day, maybe I'd be more open minded to these cars needing that much work.

 

[eldubb440]

Mine? Regarding the body, the only things not original are the right fender and about 1/3 of the trunk floor.

lol..... when I asked "how about yours"?, I didn't mean yours in particular.....
it was aimed at anyone reading the post

anyway, IMO any body repair is some extent of rebody..... it's just semantics, I guess..... and yes, fraud will always be fraud

but can anyone answer why it is ok to swap an engine, or an entire drive line for that matter, all with stamped VINs from one car into another?
but body repair is always the hot topic?

I believe laws were written around the theft angle.... and applying those laws to restoring junk 50 years later may not apply.

cars are original once...... any repair done once they leave the lot is some form of restoration done to a "used car"

 

[MOPARENT]

Swapping vins and tags for profit and deceit would be considered VERY wrong in my book. But if a car was built from the remains of a severe wreck and was considered somewhat historical and was well known, (think travis bell GL) what really would be the harm in that?…I know, I know, poor example…..

 

[69L48Z27]

I always thought it was odd that these cars have the VIN plate on the dash, which can be removed as an assembly. Does that mean if it take the dash out of the car it's tampering. Probably not. But the VIN off the dash itself is bad? What's the difference? What about 68 and older cars, without a fender tag or build sheet there's nothing to match up right?

Like many others have said, when your trying to deceive someone and make $$$ it's bad news.

 

[Car Nut]

It's fraud, any piece of sh!t that does it should be in prison!

Greg who's doing that?

 

[Kern Dog]

Oddly , many Dodge trucks had it riveted to the drivers door. I once replaced a door on a truck and just moved the tag to the replacement door. In that case, it was not to defraud or misrepresent.
Regarding engine swaps, trans swaps...I don't see that as a problem UNLESS the replacement is REstamped with numbers to coincide with the originals that were removed from the car. If the replacement engine/trans wear their original numbers, I see no attempt to deceive.

 

[Bladecutter]

Oddly , many Dodge trucks had it riveted to the drivers door. I once replaced a door on a truck and just moved the tag to the replacement door. In that case, it was not to defraud or misrepresent.
Regarding engine swaps, trans swaps...I don't see that as a problem UNLESS the replacement is REstamped with numbers to coincide with the originals that were removed from the car. If the replacement engine/trans wear their original numbers, I see no attempt to deceive.

Why?.....the drive line is the heart of the car.....moving parts.....sheet metal can't move without that.
One could say the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. What if it's a frame with drive line, seperate from body, what constitutes the car? what came first, the chicken or the egg.?

 

[steve from staten island]

Just to play devil's advocate, everything is relative. Is there a difference between taking a donor car and using all the parts to fix a total rust bucket with nothing salvagable except the vin tag and rad support and then claiming that as a restored original car or between swapping the vin tag and rad support from that same rust bucket onto that same donor car? The end result is the same. You have a restored car with the vin tag and rad support identifiers.

I was thinking the same thing. As if you had a GTX or RR how much can be replaced before its not really that car anymore

 

[Baller]

I would be pissed if I bought a car where the VIN and body numbers were swapped. See pics below: But then on the other hand, is this still a Daytona? Or a hemi 'Cuda? The question always comes down to how much of the original car has to remain and what the cut off point is. The whole back of a vehicle removed except for 2' of trunk rail, is that ok? Do either of these cars retain their 'soul'? I understand why these were not left to die as they are very desirable, but it would have been much easier to move the tags and numbers (which may have been done with the 'Cuda-I can't remember). I think a car is better off left to die than to cut out the numbers and weld them onto a clean body. A Satellite with Superbird numbers added will always be a Satellite to me, but I think these 2 examples lend fuel to the pro re-body crowd. I really dislike the re-body when it is purely to deceive. Regardless, this debate will continue for the foreseeable future.

 

[Bladecutter]

Why I've said in the past, I don't get emotional about hi volume production cars and their special variants.....still based on a chassis/body built I'n the thousands,,maybe even millions. I save all that butt picking for very limited production, HAND MADE cars. This is an arguement with no solid conclusion.....in the eye of the beholder....
to each His own.......it still takes a lot of ******* talent to produce a 10 point clone, counterfiet, whatever the **** you want to label it......semantics vs talent,, I'll go with the talent anyday.

 

[BeatersRus]

i asked a NY state trooper this Yesterday.
heres what he said :

if you have an original car and replace 3/4s of the body,
you are Still working on the Original car.
the second you swap bodies,you have rebodied the car..period.
it is not the original car,and you can be prosecuted,
the car can and more than likely will be impounded.

he says most of these types of cases,involve newer cars/chop shops.
he also asked me about the forum,
so maybe soon well have another mopar member

 

[Speedbird]

I doubt it. Does he have a B body or something?
Cops react based on the information in front of them.
Ask a lawyer and get the same result.
Until one gets in front of a judge nothing is decided.

One thing is for sure.
If I go to a DMV and start trying to explain the "hidden" VINs and what I did to save a car it by moving things, one of two things will happen.
They will look with deer in the headlights eyes like I'm nuts.
Or they will arrest me.

There is one unique part on an antique car that I can think of.
Guess what it is.
These VIN threads range for the sublime to the ridiculous.
"Swap" is a loaded word.
Tomato, tomato.

 

[WileERobby]

Just to play devil's advocate, everything is relative. Is there a difference between taking a donor car and using all the parts to fix a total rust bucket with nothing salvagable except the vin tag and rad support and then claiming that as a restored original car or between swapping the vin tag and rad support from that same rust bucket onto that same donor car? The end result is the same. You have a restored car with the vin tag and rad support identifiers.

Again, all legality issues aside, I'll play another devil's advocate. I have 2 cars, a 68 Hemi RR totally rotten basket case with it's original block, and a super-solid rust-free 68 318 Belvedere. I decide to, of course, restore the Belvedere into a Hemi RR using the Hemi cars engine, BUT LEAVE THE BELVEDERE VIN on that car. Or, I TRANSFER/GRAFT the VIN data onto the Belvedere body. The end result is the same: a 68 Hemi b-body. The only difference is if the body retains it's original (Belvedere)VIN, or now has the (RR) VIN from the other car. Anybody's thought's on this scenario? Legit ? Fraud ?

 

[BeatersRus]

yeah i guess that officer must not have known what he was talking about right?

so you really think the only cars stolen and chopped,
or rebodied and revinned into other cars are b bodies?? lol!

anyways,to the last poster.
if you leave the 318 vin on the car,its legit.
all youve done is upgraded the 318 car.....

 

[Speedbird]

Maybe and maybe not.
But he has a badge and a gun.
He is right.
Right there.

 

[BeatersRus]

hmm,well seeing as a staties word is no good,??!!
ill swing by and talk to one of the investigators this week and see what he says about it.
will that be " good enough " ?

i have a hard time understanding why so many refuse to think logically.....
this isnt rocket science....