What transmission fluid to use

[oldbee]

I'd only ask how often you changed the fluid. If not much, looks pretty typical to me, considering it's use. Most of the 'dirt' would be clutch powder. I'd change the fluid after so many runs, to keep it in good shape.
At least some I've known, years ago, would replace the clutches (including the red ones) often, right at the track.

See, I told ya ‘miller’ wud chime in! Changing clutches in the pits? Wow!

 

[malex]

I'd only ask how often you changed the fluid. If not much, looks pretty typical to me, considering it's use. Most of the 'dirt' would be clutch powder. I'd change the fluid after so many runs, to keep it in good shape.
At least some I've known, years ago, would replace the clutches (including the red ones) often, right at the track.

There would be 4 race days on the fluid. I didn't expect it to get so grungy so quick but being my rookie year this is just another learning experience for me. The freshening will be good for it and I can start fresh and know what's inside of this 727.

 

[miller]

I can start fresh and know what's inside of this 727.

I'd call that a good thing!
If your gonna push it hard, need to know what your pushing. And, that trans fluid, not much difference than the life giving oil in your motor!

 

[dvw]

Sorry late to the party. I'm assuming the fluid was fresh 30 passes ago. Like Miller said the grey mud is somewhat normal from friction material. However I don't think I'd expect it to be that bad after 30 passes. Mine looks pretty decent after 150 passes even using Walmart Dexron . So what to do? Let's get it apart and take a look. I have confidence that you can do it yourself. Removing just the valve body and pump will give you access to the KD band and clutches. Clutch disassembly is a snap ring. Let's see what those items look like. Then we'll go from there. 30 minutes of work.
Doug

 

[malex]

Sorry late to the party. I'm assuming the fluid was fresh 30 passes ago. Like Miller said the grey mud is somewhat normal from friction material. However I don't think I'd expect it to be that bad after 30 passes. Mine looks pretty decent after 150 passes even using Walmart Dexron . So what to do? Let's get it apart and take a look. I have confidence that you can do it yourself. Removing just the valve body and pump will give you access to the KD band and clutches. Clutch disassembly is a snap ring. Let's see what those items look like. Then we'll go from there. 30 minutes of work.
Doug

--
Glad to see you made it Doug! Lol. Yes there wasn't too many passes on it this past season. The first 4 race days consisted of 3 test runs and first round out. I checked my log and I made 34 passes on this fluid after changing the shift selector seal.
I checked with a long time friend/fellow racer who's business is performance transmissions. That ended up that he's going to freshen it up for me next week. This way I'll also find out what is all done to this and if/where upgrades should be made. Not having been into a 727 since the early 90's the offer didn't take too much thinking neither. I will say that I took a lot of **** from my transmission friend too, over the hood, a Mopar purist he is.. Now, if I would have read Doug's post yesterday that plan likely would have changed, lol.

One of the things I'm thinking of while this transmission is out is going with a low gear set. The transmission is supposed to have a 4 gear planetary already but likely is the std ratio if it even has that upgrade. My trany friend says that the lower gear set doesn't necessarily mean the car will be faster. What's your thoughts guys?

I did the math and going from 2.45 to the 2.77 low gear is about the same as changing to a 4.56 from the current 4.10's.

Thoughts?

 

[dvw]

Mine runs 3 pin planets, so does my sons turbo car. Never seen a planet itself fail. I would not run the low gear set. Personally I wish I would have left the 4.10 in mine instead of the 4.30. My old 500" car (ran 10.1x ET's) was just as quick with a 4.10 as it was with the 4.56.
Doug

 

[oldbee]

I scooped out 2.77’s way back when and then started thinking about all the chassis mod’s that would need to be done for all that difference in start line.

 

[malex]

Mine runs 3 pin planets, so does my sons turbo car. Never seen a planet itself fail. I would not run the low gear set. Personally I wish I would have left the 4.10 in mine instead of the 4.30. My old 500" car (ran 10.1x ET's) was just as quick with a 4.10 as it was with the 4.56.
Doug

That's good enough for me as far as low gear sets and planetary upgrades go. 10.1's is where I want to end up and I think I'll be there next year as it is. Excellent advise as always. Thanks!

 

[Mike Gaines]

Mine runs 3 pin planets, so does my sons turbo car. Never seen a planet itself fail. I would not run the low gear set. Personally I wish I would have left the 4.10 in mine instead of the 4.30. My old 500" car (ran 10.1x ET's) was just as quick with a 4.10 as it was with the 4.56.
Doug

DVW...I have a 4.30 gear in my DANA. My old MT Slicks were 28" tall with a 88" rollout. I bought a new set of Stiff Sidewall Hoosiers that are 29" tall with 92" rollout. This mathematically changed my 4.30 to 4.10 (taller tire). I did NOT lose any ET but picked up about 2.49 mph in the traps....I surmise that my motor has enuf power to pull the taller tire without giving up any ET but yet getting me more MPH on the big end. I would do it again. Very happy with the results. 10.170 best ET with 131.54 MPH after the taller tire (92" rollout). (10.191 ET @ 129.05 with the shorter 28" tall, 88"rollout tire.) A lower ET of .021 seconds and gain of 2.49mph with only the taller tire, no other changes.
Your thinking is right.

 

[Mike Gaines]

That's good enough for me as far as low gear sets and planetary upgrades go. 10.1's is where I want to end up and I think I'll be there next year as it is. Excellent advise as always. Thanks!

Malex, you will absolutely be in the 10.1's this coming season (or lower) ..

 

[malex]

Malex, you will absolutely be in the 10.1's this coming season (or lower) ..

---
Mr. Gaines. You've been right before, sure hoping you're right with this prediction!
And while I have you, the reducers are in the fab process of sizing up to 3.5" too.

 

[Mike Gaines]

---
Mr. Gaines. You've been right before, sure hoping you're right with this prediction!
And while I have you, the reducers are in the fab process of sizing up to 3.5" too.
View attachment 549405

Good job on the collector extensions

 

[malex]

Good job on the collector extensions

Thanks for noticing them. Saved 1lb too.

 

[Budnicks]

In my racecars I used Redline C+ ATF full synthetic
on Chrysler stuff
it has a higher temp rating & an anti-foaming agent
helps a shitload when your on a trans-brake
"for any length of time"
I tried everything, different Type F's, Type III & Type IV
also Dextron in Various different brands, name brands & cheap ****/junk
& also B&M Slick shift, it was better than the cheap **** was...
Redline did even better, in all categories, including pressure stability,
wear, superior heat resistance , foaming/never a burnt smell &
also an inline heat sink, etc.
{I also used a big 11"x 17" 4 core/pass {?} Derale trans-cooler/cooling fan},

If it can withstand that abuse than a 700hp combo would be no big deal...

It ain't cheap, but it worth the added cost IMO
A real Race-Trany, TF or Powerglide whatever etc. let alone good converter,
isn't cheap either...

I also recycled it somewhat, they sell a kit...
I'd also drain & use new {recycled at times} every event...
Sometimes between rounds if necessary, hot lapping...
I was running bets of 6.90's @ 190+ with a 7.5" 5500 stall converter,
on the trans-brake for a few seconds at a time while waiting
for a light, racing much slower cars, in Comp. Eliminator they had
rules about too many electronics back then too & also in the
old Super Eliminator S/E 7.90 et, that was replaced by NHRA's
Top Sportsman, Top Dragster...
The trans/converter combo was made for a 2500# combo,
that'd flash to 5800 rpm or so regularly, it was brutal on trans-fluids,
Redline was by-far the best I used !!
Used it in the Lenco/Jeffco planetary race trans & ol' Clutchflite too...

MY street/strip cars TF a727 & my Dakota 4x4 44RE
Now I use Royal Purple Max ATF full synthetic...
$12 a qt. {pricey} less if bought in cases or buy bulk...
Only because It's easier to find, you can find it most anywhere...
So far so good been about 10+ years now....
It was on a trans expert recommendation in the LA area
& another resected Drag-racer & friend
that works for Chevron Research facilities in Richmond that
specifically does research destructive & preventive
the causes & effects on parts engines/trans/rear ends etc.
of someone I highly respect, ,
I'd mention his/their names, but I'm not sure he'd/they'd like me to
mention his name or business or not...

Redline I use, I have to stock up on it, I haven't lately,
$9 - $10 a qt. ballpark price, I was getting it for about $6 - $7 a qt.
& I was recycling it, it lasted a long, long time, especially when
I bought in drums...
Some stupid/lame restrictions here in Calif., I won't get into here...

I lost a couple of trans due to "****/cheap *** fluids",
I vowed, never again will I be a cheapskate,
when it comes to oils/fluids,
I haven't ever regretted it since either...
It is the life blood of the engine/trans/diff. etc.
I don't do it with my engines & won't with the trans either !!
Why would you want to skimp ? especially in that area ?

I don't like to waste my money either, I prefer to do my research...

If that cheap stuff worked for you,
than great more power to ya'

Some people swear by the cheap ****,
I ain't one of them people...

 

[malex]

In my racecars I used Redline C+ ATF full synthetic
on Chrysler stuff
it has a higher temp rating & an anti-foaming agent
helps a shitload when your on a trans-brake
"for any length of time"
I tried everything, different Type F's, Type III & Type IV
also Dextron in Various different brands, name brands & cheap ****/junk
& also B&M Slick shift, it was better than the cheap **** was...
Redline did even better, in all categories, including pressure stability,
wear, superior heat resistance , foaming/never a burnt smell &
also an inline heat sink, etc.
{I also used a big 11"x 17" 4 core/pass {?} Derale trans-cooler/cooling fan},

If it can withstand that abuse than a 700hp combo would be no big deal...

It ain't cheap, but it worth the added cost IMO
A real Race-Trany, TF or Powerglide whatever etc. let alone good converter,
isn't cheap either...

I also recycled it somewhat, they sell a kit...
I'd also drain & use new {recycled at times} every event...
Sometimes between rounds if necessary, hot lapping...
I was running bets of 6.90's @ 190+ with a 7.5" 5500 stall converter,
on the trans-brake for a few seconds at a time while waiting
for a light, racing much slower cars, in Comp. Eliminator they had
rules about too many electronics back then too & also in the
old Super Eliminator S/E 7.90 et, that was replaced by NHRA's
Top Sportsman, Top Dragster...
The trans/converter combo was made for a 2500# combo,
that'd flash to 5800 rpm or so regularly, it was brutal on trans-fluids,
Redline was by-far the best I used !!
Used it in the Lenco/Jeffco planetary race trans & ol' Clutchflite too...

MY street/strip cars TF a727 & my Dakota 4x4 44RE
Now I use Royal Purple Max ATF full synthetic...
$12 a qt. {pricey} less if bought in cases or buy bulk...
Only because It's easier to find, you can find it most anywhere...
So far so good been about 10+ years now....
It was on a trans expert recommendation in the LA area
& another resected Drag-racer & friend
that works for Chevron Research facilities in Richmond that
specifically does research destructive & preventive
the causes & effects on parts engines/trans/rear ends etc.
of someone I highly respect, ,
I'd mention his/their names, but I'm not sure he'd/they'd like me to
mention his name or business or not...

Redline I use, I have to stock up on it, I haven't lately,
$9 - $10 a qt. ballpark price, I was getting it for about $6 - $7 a qt.
& I was recycling it, it lasted a long, long time, especially when
I bought in drums...
Some stupid/lame restrictions here in Calif., I won't get into here...

I lost a couple of trans due to "****/cheap *** fluids",
I vowed, never again will I be a cheapskate,
when it comes to oils/fluids,
I haven't ever regretted it since either...
It is the life blood of the engine/trans/diff. etc.
I don't do it with my engines & won't with the trans either !!
Why would you want to skimp ? especially in that area ?

I don't like to waste my money either, I prefer to do my research...

If that cheap stuff worked for you,
than great more power to ya'

Some people swear by the cheap ****,
I ain't one of them people...

Sir Budnicks, excellent shared experiences, appreciate this very much. I was in at the parts store earlier today and noticed the Royal Purple rack but no syn trans oil. They checked, can order it in, $22.75 qt. Think I'll be checking around more.. Have you ever tried the Amsoil line of synthetic atf?

 

[Zeppelin264]

Ordered up a Cope trans last year and he shipped a case of Penzoil #2 fluid with it.

Since he's the builder I went with it. No issues so far. It seems to be difficult fluid to find.

 

[dvw]

Here's a pic of my clutch plates and band when last inspected. Aluminum drum, 135 passes with Walmart Dexron

Doug

 

[Budnicks]

Sir Budnicks, excellent shared experiences, appreciate this very much. I was in at the parts store earlier today and noticed the Royal Purple rack but no syn trans oil. They checked, can order it in, $22.75 qt. Think I'll be checking around more.. Have you ever tried the Amsoil line of synthetic atf?

Never used any Amsoil product, ever
I've read good things...
I've seen guys use it at the track... had the stickers etc.
I don't know much about them good or bad really...
I haven't heard bad things, if that helps...

I know Royal Purple is expensive,
I didn't think it was that expensive now...
Try Summit Racing, I think it's cheaper there...
So is the Redline synthetics...

 

[malex]

Here's a pic of my clutch plates and band when last inspected. Aluminum drum, 135 passes with Walmart Dexron

Doug

View attachment 549764 View attachment 549765

Going 135 passes behind 800HP and looking like that, tells me that when your transmission is built right and seals are doing their job, basic ATF does the job. Now I believe that you foorbrake your car Doug? With the transbrake there would be more heat buildup meaning more frequent fluid changes. Is there a rule of thumb on fluid changes to go with?

 

[malex]

Never used any Amsoil product, ever
I've read good things...
I've seen guys use it at the track... had the stickers etc.
I don't know much about them good or bad really...
I haven't heard bad things, if that helps...

I know Royal Purple is expensive,
I didn't think it was that expensive now...
Try Summit Racing, I think it's cheaper there...
So is the Redline synthetics...

-------
Most of the time when things come over the border everyone is gouging along the way, none more than that crooked Government that has us under siege, but that's another story.. One thing that I have learned through this experience is the necessity to have a routine transmission maintenance program. The cars around me at the track though, I never noticed or heard any of them worrying about dumping their trans fluid between race days.

When I used to be into the 727's I used to use a product called doorease during assembly. Is that still around and used or is there something better now?