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502 ci Street Engine

R

Rob R

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Here's a couple of pictures of a low deck I'm going to put together for a customer...It's for his 67 R/T 4 spd car...Nice engine...billet caps...lifter bushings...Pro billet rods...custom JE's...soild roller...Indy1's everything you need to make 800 hp.

502.JPG

5022.jpg

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5026.jpg
 
With his rockers it'll have 700 lift...

I don't want to say anymore because he's a customer and they are his parts.
 
That is a nice collection of hardware!!
 
Meep...

These are the parts that I find really work...
In the last year I'm starting to see an alarming trend. I've gotten 3 economy strokers in for a freshen...They all were REAL STREET engines(pump gas) all of them worn right out with 2000-3500 miles on them.This last one is COMPLETELY FINISHED.Main caps and web toast and like the other two the crank is cracked/broken at the 7-8 journal...this last crank is cracked down to the oil feed.
You take an economy crank that weights almost 100 lbs and stick it in a block with some kinda fire breathing heads and a fast rate cam so it accelerates like an injected engine.Then drive it on the street for 2000-3000 these nothing left...That's the trend that I am personally seeing...
These engines were not mine just brought in for a look see...
 
Last edited:
Rob R, are you refering to the 440 source stuff as "economy strokers"? I am on the cusp of buying one of their kits...
 
There's nothing wrong with 440'sRus kits...I'm referring to off shore cranks in general (these three crank's look to be very early forgings...very unfinished compared to what you get now)
they came from two different manufactures...
But a heavy crank in a block with stock caps that makes some onions is starting to look like a problem from my end.
 
Rob R said:
Meep...

These are the parts that I find really work...
In the last year I'm starting to see an alarming trend. I've gotten 3 economy strokers in for a freshen...They all were REAL STREET engines(pump gas) all of them worn right out with 2000-3500 miles on them.This last one is COMPLETELY FINISHED.Main caps and web toast and like the other two the crank is cracked/broken at the 7-8 journal...this last crank is cracked down to the oil feed.
You take an economy crank that weights almost 100 lbs and stick it in a block with some kinda fire breathing heads and a fast rate cam so it accelerates like an injected engine.Then drive it on the street for 2000-3000 these nothing left...That's the trend that I am personally seeing...
These engines were not mine just brought in for a look see...
Click to expand...

I have no experience with stroker kits and wasn't planning on going there anyway - at least right now. For what I want to do immediately the stock steel crank should be fine. So you are saying way too much power output than the iron block can support - even with a good crank, etc... ???
 
Not to much power for the block just the heaver the crank the less forgiving the reciprocating mass...
Lots of things attribute to caps and cranks breaking... poor material..Weak ignition in a street car (orange box kinda thing)too much timing.. poor fuel curve...dirty oil..in traffic heat all take there toll on these 500 - 600 plus hp engines.
Just because you cant hear it ping doesn't mean it's not.
Pretty much every stroker I've taken apart has had chatter (heaver the crank the more chatter) and blocks running heavy cranks with stock caps and stock caps plus a girdle are the worst..."don't get me started on BB girdles:rolleyes:"
But it all starts with that Chinese coarse 4340 material.IMHO
 
must be nice to be able to spend that kind of money on this stuff w/the economy the way it is
 
Rob R said:
Not to much power for the block just the heaver the crank the less forgiving the reciprocating mass...
Lots of things attribute to caps and cranks breaking... poor material..Weak ignition in a street car (orange box kinda thing)too much timing.. poor fuel curve...dirty oil..in traffic heat all take there toll on these 500 - 600 plus hp engines.
Just because you cant hear it ping doesn't mean it's not.
Pretty much every stroker I've taken apart has had chatter (heaver the crank the more chatter) and blocks running heavy cranks with stock caps and stock caps plus a girdle are the worst..."don't get me started on BB girdles:rolleyes:"
But it all starts with that Chinese coarse 4340 material.IMHO
Click to expand...

No doubt it starts with the Chinese hardware, which is why I was reluctant to go there, and even more so now :sad: Seems like it's on the edge of reliability. If it's too good to be true it probably is. On the other hand following some basic rules with fuel curve and timing will minimize the damage. Proper quench and keeping the cylinder pressure in check with the fuel used is huge!

I think a basic recipe for a big inch street engine (commute to work type) is you can rely on the displacement to make up for the losses of lower CR, tall gears and RPM and still have the power. Look at the 500 Cad - 4.3" bore x 4.3" stroke, run on reg gas and make tons of torque. Take that same 500+ CI engine and have it make power at 7 KRPM seems to be an exercise in finding out which part will break next - unless of course you spend cubic dollars on good parts and short block prep. Somehow physics always wins.
 
The material is still very tuff stuff but an engine gets out of tune "very quickly I might add" and the you drive it like you stole it for 3000 mile what do you expect...
80% of the guys I talk to about building a stroker think this Chinese 4340 stuff in industructable...No crank even a Crower or Callies is indestructible when the caps are chattering...
I've seen a Callies crank out of a circle track engine that was broken due to a catastrophic explosion and you compare the grain of the Callies material to an offshore 4340 crank and it in no way is it the same material...it kinda looks like cast iron it so coarse in comparison "that's an exaggeration to make a point"
My 515 pump gas engine has an offshore crank and rods in it "K 1 stuff"
is it better than 440Rus stuff...NO...it's a little lighter and prettier...I haven't seen a broken K1 crank Yet...but I'm pretty sure it is identical.

I'm taking my pump gas engine out for this season so I can finally get my all alum engine under the hood.I'll take it apart and have a look see...I drove it like I stole it for two years (1000 miles) it turned ferocious RPM all on pump gas so we'll see if meticulous maintenance is the answer..
I know my 16 to 1 low deck doesn't even look like it's been run after 3 seasons...tiny..tiny bit of chatter...

Bronze...

It's got one of my Jerico's in it "as much as I tried to talk him out of it."just way too noisy for a street car"
And an Ford long style with a 12 button disk with 3.5 F/C buttons and a very light pressure. It'll take a bit to get the pressure right for his car and tire combo...street cars and Jerico's are for young guys who don't mind buying trans parts.:grin:
 
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