Tire and suspension question...

Gents and Ladies,

looking for opinions on tires and suspension--68 GTX

im going to redo the whole front suspension (UCA's, LCA's, sway bars, tie rod ends, ball joints, torsion bars, shocks and all bushings as well) and get new rims and tires.

should i get the tires and rims first, then do the suspension?

or should i do the suspension first then the rims and tires?

fixin' on getting pretty fat meats for the front and back--filling out the wheel wells. 15x7 in front and 15x(minimum)8 for the rears.

then once it's all finished, ill get the alignment done.

any thoughts and opinions are welcome!

Thanks!!

alway do the susp first.tires and wheels will have a ton more variation to fit what you have built.just have a goal in mind for the susp.

Thanks, 67. my goal for the suspension is a little tighter than stock. i dont want to turn the GTXer into an autox!! lol

i had a buddy tell me to do the tires first, then fit the suspension to the tires. hence the ??

If you have a chance check out our website www.p-s-t.com we have many options that will work for you. If you want to talk about the options I would be more then happy too. We also offer a discount to forum members here and free shipping.

Thanks James

thanks James, i will be in touch.

It doesn't really matter which you do first, as long as it is all followed by a correctly executed alignment.

I agree with 67 Coronet, always do suspension 1st...especially if it's already in a drivable status. Nothing worse than installing new treads on a worn out front end. It can cause uneven wear from mile one and depending on how worn components are, you may visually see the wear within a couple hundred miles.

As for wheels, you should have a pretty good idea in how you want to go (14", 15", 18"! x 6", 7", 10"!...any offest?) prior to the front end work. Knowing this will dictate what you can do as far as going stock or modifying things. Nothing worse than buying a set of big disk brakes or dropped spindles only to find out the 14" or 15" wheels with a bunch of backspaicng you planned to go with will not fit over them. Same goes for a set of 17" or 18" wheels with improper backspacing that allows the rear springs or wheel lip to cut into the sidewalls. It's best to have a complete plan, even if you know it will need to be done in stages, be it do to time...or cash flow. Otherwise you end up spending twice as much cash.

Below are some sites I found very helpful when deciding what to do with my car. They have useful online tools allowing you to input tire wheel differences to see how they impact fitment, clearance and speed.
http://www.rimsntires.com/specs.jsp
http://vexer.com/68rt/old_outdated_badly_coded_old_old_old_wheelguide.html
http://www.csgnetwork.com/speedocalibcalc.html

Making a 68 B-Body handle like it's on rails

Mario, I say "do the suspension 1st also", then choose the wheels & tire to fit afterwords, no returning non-fitting parts that way... IMHO if you want it to handle well it will need, better steering box {OPTIONAL}, sub-frame connectors, adjustable upper Control arms, adjustable Dynamic strut rods, larger anti-sway bars front & rear, quality shocks frt/rear & adjustable preferably but not mandatory, for a decent handling car, here are a few companies I have used in the past... Reilly Motor Sports, QA1 {use to be Capps Automotive}, Edelbrock, Just Suspension, Magnumforce Racing, Mancini Racing, Summit Racing, Energy Suspension, Hellwig, Moog, Hotckis, Ride Tech, XV Motorsports, SSBC, Competition Engineering, Calvert/CalTracs, Strange Engineering, Moser, Flaming River, Unisteer, Mopar Performance & PST even... American Racing Wheels, Stockton Wheel, Rider Wheels, B.F.Goodrich Comp T/A's......... I've had a couple cars with Capps Automotive Suspension products now QA1 products, Magnumforce Racing, Summit Racing, SSBC, was extremely happy with quality & especially the handling ability, 1-3/8" frt & 1" rear Summit Racing Anti-Sway Bars, Capps/now QA1 upper & lower tubular adjustable control arms & dynamic adj. strut rod, SSBC disc brakes, Edelbrock Gas Shocks, Just Suspensions 1" torsion bars {probably don't need them if you do the rest}, Calvert/Caltracs or Comp. Engineering Slide a Link traction aids, many different tire & wheel combos, current on my 68 RR is 15x7 frt. 3.75" B/S w/245/15/60 BFG Radial TA, 15x8.5 rear 4.75" or 5" B/S Halibrands {my memory isn't that great, I need to look at my notes, other 68 RR had 5.25" B/S w/15x9.5"} w/295/15/50 BFG TA's, handled like a dream, I haven't put the A-Arms, Brakes, Caltracs, on this car yet, but the Unisteer Rack {very limited on header selections, only TTI}, the O/S frt/rear anti-sway bars & Edelbrock gas shocks, made a world of differences, I will do the rest of the suspension stuff this winter probably {only had the stuff for 5 years now on the shelf.LOL...}, I have had this combo on a couple of my RR's, last time I purchase 2 of everything because, I had 2 cars {68 RR's one race, one street} that were being built, I only have the one street car now, I spent most all of my time & effort on the race car & I'm always broke as hell now... I think the, subframe connectors, shock, brakes & anti-sway bars, made the biggest noticeable differences, in the other car, the adj. tubular A-Arms made it, infinitely more adjustable, especially at the spindles, for layback & alignments, helped to get a much more solid feel on the other car, with way better tracking/handling, especially in hard cornering {I do live in the Sierria Mountains, lots of sharp hard corners}, the car handled like it was on rails... No stock Mopar suspension will do that... there is a great old article/write-up over at Mopar Action Mag. web-site in the Tech section, about a RR that was done for handling... Good luck... Most all of the suspension stuff, was purchased from mostly Mancini Racing & a few from Summit Racing, shocks & sway bars...

last winter I did front and rear sway bars , bigger front torsion bars and a Steer & gear firm feeling steering box . Love all these mods birdible drives like a dream now

Thanks for all the responses gents! suspension first it is!

im pretty much set with a few items (not purchased yet)...bilstein shocks all the way around, steer and gear stage 2 box (forgot to mention im doing the box too), polygraphite bushings.

on the fence... .096 or .103 t-bars, 15x8 or 8.5 wide rear tires (how much offset would i need for the front??), beefier sway bar in front, adding rear sway bar (8 3/4-no sway bar or provisions for it), i have new set of MP SS rear leaves 8-R 7-L that may go on as well.

Buds: keeping her 4-wheel manual drums for now, and they work great, so not too worried bout discs for now. and not going to put cal-tracs on her cuz she's just going to be cruised around (sure, smoking a honda **** box and old camaros once and while are in the mix lol), but very, very little track time. keeping the stock UCA's and LCA's also.

i want to keep her more/less how she was born, just newer, modern parts. she's more of a cruiser than a racer.

also, by changing things all at once, am i going to run into more or less problems than if i did it in stages?

thanks for all the responses!!! keep em comin!

Budnicks said:

Mario, I say "do the suspension 1st also", then choose the wheels & tire to fit afterwords, no returning non-fitting parts that way... IMHO if you want it to handle well it will need, better steering box {OPTIONAL}, sub-frame connectors, adjustable upper Control arms, adjustable Dynamic strut rods, larger anti-sway bars front & rear, quality shocks frt/rear & adjustable preferably but not mandatory, for a decent handling car, here are a few companies I have used in the past... Reilly Motor Sports, QA1 {use to be Capps Automotive}, Edelbrock, Just Suspension, Magnumforce Racing, Mancini Racing, Summit Racing, Energy Suspension, Hellwig, Moog, Hotckis, Ride Tech, XV Motorsports, SSBC, Competition Engineering, Calvert/CalTracs, Strange Engineering, Moser, Flaming River, Unisteer, Mopar Performance & PST even... American Racing Wheels, Stockton Wheel, Rider Wheels, B.F.Goodrich Comp T/A's......... I've had a couple cars with Capps Automotive Suspension products now QA1 products, Magnumforce Racing, Summit Racing, SSBC, was extremely happy with quality & especially the handling ability, 1-3/8" frt & 1" rear Summit Racing Anti-Sway Bars, Capps/now QA1 upper & lower tubular adjustable control arms & dynamic adj. strut rod, SSBC disc brakes, Edelbrock Gas Shocks, Just Suspensions 1" torsion bars {probably don't need them if you do the rest}, Calvert/Caltracs or Comp. Engineering Slide a Link traction aids, many different tire & wheel combos, current on my 68 RR is 15x7 frt. 3.75" B/S w/245/15/60 BFG Radial TA, 15x8.5 rear 4.75" or 5" B/S Halibrands {my memory isn't that great, I need to look at my notes, other 68 RR had 5.25" B/S w/15x9.5"} w/295/15/50 BFG TA's, handled like a dream, I haven't put the A-Arms, Brakes, Caltracs, on this car yet, but the Unisteer Rack {very limited on header selections, only TTI}, the O/S frt/rear anti-sway bars & Edelbrock gas shocks, made a world of differences, I will do the rest of the suspension stuff this winter probably {only had the stuff for 5 years now on the shelf.LOL...}, I have had this combo on a couple of my RR's, last time I purchase 2 of everything because, I had 2 cars {68 RR's one race, one street} that were being built, I only have the one street car now, I spent most all of my time & effort on the race car & I'm always broke as hell now... I think the, subframe connectors, shock, brakes & anti-sway bars, made the biggest noticeable differences, in the other car, the adj. tubular A-Arms made it, infinitely more adjustable, especially at the spindles, for layback & alignments, helped to get a much more solid feel on the other car, with way better tracking/handling, especially in hard cornering {I do live in the Sierria Mountains, lots of sharp hard corners}, the car handled like it was on rails... No stock Mopar suspension will do that... there is a great old article/write-up over at Mopar Action Mag. web-site in the Tech section, about a RR that was done for handling... Good luck... Most all of the suspension stuff, was purchased from mostly Mancini Racing & a few from Summit Racing, shocks & sway bars...

Click to expand...

Budnicks! Can you please confirm for the car that handled like it was on rails - what size and brand wheels and tires were you running? If the tires were 15 inch I am surprised! I have upgraded everything on my car except have new .092" torsion bars with my current small block and only have stock rubber bushing struts and with my 15" radials it handles very well, but not like it's on rails. I'm interested in hearing more...

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MarPar said:

Thanks for all the responses gents! suspension first it is!

im pretty much set with a few items (not purchased yet)...bilstein shocks all the way around, steer and gear stage 2 box (forgot to mention im doing the box too), polygraphite bushings.

on the fence... .096 or .103 t-bars, 15x8 or 8.5 wide rear tires (how much offset would i need for the front??), beefier sway bar in front, adding rear sway bar (8 3/4-no sway bar or provisions for it), i have new set of MP SS rear leaves 8-R 7-L that may go on as well.

Buds: keeping her 4-wheel manual drums for now, and they work great, so not too worried bout discs for now. and not going to put cal-tracs on her cuz she's just going to be cruised around (sure, smoking a honda **** box and old camaros once and while are in the mix lol), but very, very little track time. keeping the stock UCA's and LCA's also.

i want to keep her more/less how she was born, just newer, modern parts. she's more of a cruiser than a racer.

also, by changing things all at once, am i going to run into more or less problems than if i did it in stages?

thanks for all the responses!!! keep em comin!

Click to expand...

Great call on the Bilstein's all around - I have them on the rear and Edelbrock IAS on the front. The Bilsteins feel great. Also good call on the stage 2 box. I have that on mine from Firm Feel and it really made a difference.

I agree the UCA's and tie-rods probably make the least noticeable difference. You can keep those stock if you can live with minimal positive caster. If you want more than +1.5 degrees you'll need to get adjustable UCA's.

Does your car already have front sway bar? If so, are the bottom of the LCA's boxed with the weld-on plate? If not, you should buy a set from Mancini and do that. The large front sway bar will deform those LCA's in a hurry if they're not boxed in.

For your rear sway bar check out Firm Feel's. My car is also 8-3/4 on a '68 satellite and had no sway bars front or rear. I like Firm Feel's because it's 3/4" and frame hung (up and over the axle) as opposed to being able to see it from below the car. Only potential drawback is it's 1/8" smaller diameter than some aftermarket sway bars out there, but I like mine just fine.

On the torsion bars - my car originally had the slant six bars - .088"
I upsized to .092" with my small block 360 and it's almost enough. I feel like I should have got .096".
You mention .096" or 1.03". Don't forget about the 1" offering in between those two sizes. Torsion bars go up generally in .004" increments. Each .004" is a big increase in stiffness. 1.03" may be a little too much for your stated goals. I'm building a 451 big block for mine and I won't go larger than 1.00". I may even go to .096". I know Hotchkis offers those 1.03" monster bars. Firm Feel offers them in 1.00" and is who I'm going to get mine through if I go that size. If I go with .096" I will order from Mancini for the Mopar Performance pieces. I have another thread up here somewhere where I compared info I gathered for all the different torsion bar suppliers. Check it out. Not all torsion bars are the same. I would not order any torsion bars from PST over the .096" size. They have multiple reports of clocking issues. I would either go Firm Feel or Mopar Performance.

Also don't forget about the pinion snubber. If you have SS rear leafs you can install the Mancini threaded adjustable. Otherwise, you can only fit the stock non-adjustable. (ask me how I know...)

Only other thing I can think of is under-hood steering column rag joint right above the steering box. They make kits to rebuild those or you can go the U-joint coupler route like I did from Flaming River. That's a pricey little guy though and requires a 1/4" cut to the length of your steering column right where the U-joint coupler mounts. If I had to do it again I think I would have rebuilt mine instead. I don't know if there's any tactile feel difference.

Budnicks said:

Mario, I say "do the suspension 1st also", then choose the wheels & tire to fit afterwords, no returning non-fitting parts that way... IMHO if you want it to handle well it will need, better steering box {OPTIONAL}, sub-frame connectors, adjustable upper Control arms, adjustable Dynamic strut rods, larger anti-sway bars front & rear, quality shocks frt/rear & adjustable preferably but not mandatory, for a decent handling car, here are a few companies I have used in the past... Reilly Motor Sports, QA1 {use to be Capps Automotive}, Edelbrock, Just Suspension, Magnumforce Racing, Mancini Racing, Summit Racing, Energy Suspension, Hellwig, Moog, Hotckis, Ride Tech, XV Motorsports, SSBC, Competition Engineering, Calvert/CalTracs, Strange Engineering, Moser, Flaming River, Unisteer, Mopar Performance & PST even... American Racing Wheels, Stockton Wheel, Rider Wheels, B.F.Goodrich Comp T/A's......... I've had a couple cars with Capps Automotive Suspension products now QA1 products, Magnumforce Racing, Summit Racing, SSBC, was extremely happy with quality & especially the handling ability, 1-3/8" frt & 1" rear Summit Racing Anti-Sway Bars, Capps/now QA1 upper & lower tubular adjustable control arms & dynamic adj. strut rod, SSBC disc brakes, Edelbrock Gas Shocks, Just Suspensions 1" torsion bars {probably don't need them if you do the rest}, Calvert/Caltracs or Comp. Engineering Slide a Link traction aids, many different tire & wheel combos, current on my 68 RR is 15x7 frt. 3.75" B/S w/245/15/60 BFG Radial TA, 15x8.5 rear 4.75" or 5" B/S Halibrands {my memory isn't that great, I need to look at my notes, other 68 RR had 5.25" B/S w/15x9.5"} w/295/15/50 BFG TA's, handled like a dream, I haven't put the A-Arms, Brakes, Caltracs, on this car yet, but the Unisteer Rack {very limited on header selections, only TTI}, the O/S frt/rear anti-sway bars & Edelbrock gas shocks, made a world of differences, I will do the rest of the suspension stuff this winter probably {only had the stuff for 5 years now on the shelf.LOL...}, I have had this combo on a couple of my RR's, last time I purchase 2 of everything because, I had 2 cars {68 RR's one race, one street} that were being built, I only have the one street car now, I spent most all of my time & effort on the race car & I'm always broke as hell now... I think the, subframe connectors, shock, brakes & anti-sway bars, made the biggest noticeable differences, in the other car, the adj. tubular A-Arms made it, infinitely more adjustable, especially at the spindles, for layback & alignments, helped to get a much more solid feel on the other car, with way better tracking/handling, especially in hard cornering {I do live in the Sierria Mountains, lots of sharp hard corners}, the car handled like it was on rails... No stock Mopar suspension will do that... there is a great old article/write-up over at Mopar Action Mag. web-site in the Tech section, about a RR that was done for handling... Good luck... Most all of the suspension stuff, was purchased from mostly Mancini Racing & a few from Summit Racing, shocks & sway bars...

Click to expand...

Wow. I was out of breath, trying to read all that!

68 Sport Satellite said:

Great call on the Bilstein's all around - I have them on the rear and Edelbrock IAS on the front. The Bilsteins feel great. Also good call on the stage 2 box. I have that on mine from Firm Feel and it really made a difference.

sweet!! like to hear that!! lol

I agree the UCA's and tie-rods probably make the least noticeable difference. You can keep those stock if you can live with minimal positive caster. If you want more than +1.5 degrees you'll need to get adjustable UCA's.

yeah, they seem to be in pretty good shape...ive greased the hell out of them every year. ill take a closer look when she's up in the air. dont really need adjustables quite yet :toothy6:

Does your car already have front sway bar? If so, are the bottom of the LCA's boxed with the weld-on plate? If not, you should buy a set from Mancini and do that. The large front sway bar will deform those LCA's in a hurry if they're not boxed in.

i have a stock sway bar, (it measures out to 1.06 w da mic). i took a look, and it doesnt look like they're boxed in. ill take a pic and post it. i dont really think i need bigger than that do I? IDK

For your rear sway bar check out Firm Feel's. My car is also 8-3/4 on a '68 satellite and had no sway bars front or rear. I like Firm Feel's because it's 3/4" and frame hung (up and over the axle) as opposed to being able to see it from below the car. Only potential drawback is it's 1/8" smaller diameter than some aftermarket sway bars out there, but I like mine just fine.

i really dont mind if the sway bar hangs down under the axle, her *** is pretty high, and you would be able to see it from the back. i think that would look pretty cool. though it would be closer to the asphalt. hmmm...

since there aren't any perches or mounts (that i can see anyways) do i need to weld them on?? i cant weld for ****, but a buddy has a nice Miller that he'd let me practice with and use.

On the torsion bars - my car originally had the slant six bars - .088"
I upsized to .092" with my small block 360 and it's almost enough. I feel like I should have got .096".
You mention .096" or 1.03". Don't forget about the 1" offering in between those two sizes. Torsion bars go up generally in .004" increments. Each .004" is a big increase in stiffness. 1.03" may be a little too much for your stated goals.

see this is one that ive been hemming and hawing about for a while. i do have a big olde honkin' iron 440 up front, and i was figuring the 1.03's would do a better job of holdin' da motor up and giving a bit more road feel.

I have another thread up here somewhere where I compared info I gathered for all the different torsion bar suppliers. Check it out. Not all torsion bars are the same. I would not order any torsion bars from PST over the .096" size. They have multiple reports of clocking issues. I would either go Firm Feel or Mopar Performance.

im pretty sure i suscribed to that thread! lol i've read a few things bout the bigger PST's having clocking issues too. but if IIRC, they were fixing/fixed them. either way, im probably going to go with MP's.

Also don't forget about the pinion snubber. If you have SS rear leafs you can install the Mancini threaded adjustable. Otherwise, you can only fit the stock non-adjustable. (ask me how I know...)

pinion snubber is there already...should i change it out for the adjustable? will the SS springs be harsh with the bilstiens? i have the SS one's already, but i dont want a kidney breaker, so im not opposed to getting a new set of 7-R 6-L.

Only other thing I can think of is under-hood steering column rag joint right above the steering box. They make kits to rebuild those or you can go the U-joint coupler route like I did from Flaming River. That's a pricey little guy though and requires a 1/4" cut to the length of your steering column right where the U-joint coupler mounts. If I had to do it again I think I would have rebuilt mine instead. I don't know if there's any tactile feel difference.

Click to expand...

good to know...thanks! ill prob just rebuild it while the steering box is out anyways. AND ill be able to get to the motor mount too!!! ca-ching!

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Dako said:

Wow. I was out of breath, trying to read all that!

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LOL yep, good olde Buds...that's why i like him...he tells you EXACTLY what's on his mind rite at that time!

do you remember when your dad said..." son...use a rubber " ?....that applies here also.

if you want your GTX to ride like a truck...use the poly bushings and what not...

if you want your GTX to ride nicely and NOT FEEL EVERY CRACK IN THE ROAD... use rubber.

i recently ( just last year) totally rebuilt my front end of the purple thing. all moog rubber bushings....I REPLACED EVVVVERYTHING !.....tires are 255-60 15 on 7 inch rims and im telling ya....it rides great....handles better than i thought it would!


THEN...WHEN YOURE ALL DONE.........mail a box of Delmonicos to Tpodwdog...Pittsburgh Pa. glad to offer my 2 cents !

tpodwdog said:

do you remember when your dad said..." son...use a rubber " ?....that applies here also. LMAO yep, he sure did!!!!

if you want your GTX to ride like a truck...use the poly bushings and what not...

if you want your GTX to ride nicely and NOT FEEL EVERY CRACK IN THE ROAD... use rubber.

i recently ( just last year) totally rebuilt my front end of the purple thing. all moog rubber bushings....I REPLACED EVVVVERYTHING !.....tires are 255-60 15 on 7 inch rims and im telling ya....it rides great....handles better than i thought it would!


THEN...WHEN YOURE ALL DONE.........mail a box of Delmonicos to Tpodwdog...Pittsburgh Pa. glad to offer my 2 cents !

Click to expand...

hmmmm....you make em tonto think sum more, kemosabe.

i figured the rubber would feel like mush on a nice, "spirited" drive though. i definitely don't want a jaw breaker, but i would trade a bit of cush to be able to stomp on the loud pedal and keep a good hold of her....

how bout this...if i do use rubber, and it sucks, then you get your *** out here to help me switch it all out to poly...and then you can pickup your damn steaks!!! Deal??? :evil5: LMAO :laughing1:

MarPar said:

hmmmm....you make em tonto think sum more, kemosabe.

i figured the rubber would feel like mush on a nice, "spirited" drive though. i definitely don't want a jaw breaker, but i would trade a bit of cush to be able to stomp on the loud pedal and keep a good hold of her....

how bout this...if i do use rubber, and it sucks, then you get your *** out here to help me switch it all out to poly...and then you can pickup your damn steaks!!! Deal??? :evil5: LMAO :laughing1:

Click to expand...

dude...i stomp on the loud pedal every chance i get.... personally...i have a truck already,,,,and it rides JUST LIKE A TRUCK. when i get in the Road Runner...its like gettin in a cadillac. the Belvedere will be next to recieve the "Tpod front end rebuild" ...and ill use rubber. my buddy used poly and i really hate riding in that thing....its like riding in a cinder block with wheels ! but the call is yours of course. i also replaced the leaf spring bushings front and back....MAN , what a difference!

you wont be disapointed using the rubber bushings......i think if you use poly....youll be unhappy FO-SHO ! and DONT be surprised if I DO show up to get my damn Delmonicos.....whoa Bundy !

dont think they're boxed...

I am rebuilding my 69 RR right now and I am using all new Moog rubber original replacement parts,Mine was all 44 year old original parts and since it wont be driven daily the new parts should last forever.

as already stated "dont use poly".if you even mention the phrase "ball buster" then poly is gunna suck.i polyed up a 68 charger,wish i hadnt.i got to know every little bump(and i do meen tiny)on my street because of that ride.

If you do them both BEFORE pressing the car into service AND get it aligned before pressing it into service, it does not make a hill of beans difference which you do first.