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I'm pretty sure this carb is not the right carb for my 440 -HELP

tendy30

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This issue is in relation to a previous thread from about a week ago requesting help to choose a proper CARB for my stock 440 or have this one rebuilt.

I started to pull a couple things off and I am no mechanic by any means however, I noticed some pretty unusual things. These photo's below are posted from a center shot of the carb,side stepping around the passenger side and a slight picture from behind the left side of the carb.

In the previous thread I had described a gas leak as well as a vaccuum leak at idle which is less than 5. (this is still happening)

In the first picture I notice two problems highlighted in red. The circled red object at the top of the picture was an attempt by someone to seal a port into the carb. They used silicone and some kind of rubber cap and it definitely did not seal the port. The second red circle near the electronic choke has the same thing - silicone with red cap.

The second is a shot of the carb from the passenger side. There is an electric choke with no wires going anywhere to it. I only drive it in the summer and wouldn't need it but it still looks unusual. The rubber hose with the garden hose clamps - this looks completely sloppy and not even sure if that is legal?

The third and fourth pictures indicate my final conclusion that this is not the right carburetor for my 440 - why is there a gap into my intake? It looks as if this carb is too short and doesn't fit the span of the intake at all.

I pulled some numbers off the carb and maybe someone can tell me a little more about which road I should go down.

There are raised numbers on the top of the carb reading 2312.
On the front of the carb stamped into the steel B0 9501S
On the left hand side of the carb (just under choke arm) 0-1862.

What is the proper original carb for this car?

After I figure out the problem with some advice from you guys I will post again explaining exactly what I am looking to do with the engine. Can only absorb so much as I am a fresh mind!

Thanks for your help

- - - Updated - - -

Looks like the pictures reversed themselves. As described in first post - Picture 1 uploaded as picture 4.

- - - Updated - - -

The pictures reversed themselves. In my description to picture 1 is shows up last. I am sure you guys/women will catch on.
 

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it's an aftermarket afb. carter made some of these carbs with a chrysler throttle arm and thats what you have. reddish/orange stuff looks like engine paint overspray. look for a number at the front passenger side carb to manifold bolt. if there's a number there you can look it up to see what it is.
 
Duke51 - some things are left to trained technicians. I believe in knowing a lot about a little and a little about everything. This problem requires someone who has experience as there are more issues at hand with my motor. I'm in the investment industry. Your comment would be like me saying take a course in derivatives. I'm trying to learn here but my day job takes up most of my life. I rely on your expertise as well as others to get me through projects. When I run into a major problem I take it to someone who is licensed.

Please don't take offense to the comment above I am just trying to learn here and benefit from others mistakes and would prefer not to be "called out" on my lack of knowledge of carburetors.

In the end I am trying to match up what I need for my project vs what I already have. I want to know if I have the right carb vs buying a new one b/c if and when I buy the new carb I am going to a lumpier cam, etc.
 
Alrighty.. I'm gonna throw a few cents into the pot and address a few of your concerns...

1.) The hole in picture 1 is the choke well, I'd recommend buying a block off plate

2.) the electric choke - looks like it's rigged to be open at all times, if you aren't worried about it, I'm not worried about it

3.) the hose and clamps deal - heh.. yeah it's legal, and you see it a LOT.. if it makes you sleep better at night you can put a longer piece of fuel hose on there and put a couple clamps
 
it's an aftermarket afb. carter made some of these carbs with a chrysler throttle arm and thats what you have. reddish/orange stuff looks like engine paint overspray. look for a number at the front passenger side carb to manifold bolt. if there's a number there you can look it up to see what it is.

Lew,he has the number is listed,9501S.I know,I'm old too !!
 
9501S is an aftermarket 500 CFM carburetor with a Mopar linkage set-up. It is not original for your 440 or any other car. Personally I think you would be better off buying a new Edelbrock 600 CFM (#1406) or a 750 CFM (#1411) depending on your intended useage. The problem with old carburetors is that you never know what guys have done to them. Starting with a new one you have a great set of instructions and a great tuning guide. As has been said, you can buy a block-off kit for the choke well, and a replacement fuel line to the carb. I'm still curious as to why there is only 5" of vacuum. Did you try spraying some water at the base of the carburetor (before the motor gets hot) to see if it changes the idle? All the vacuum hoses and fittings need to be inspected as well. Initial timing could also be way off. Good luck and hang in there.
 
Thanks Colorado Dave,

These are some of the tips I need to get ahead. I will try the water trick and see what happens. I hear Edelbrock has a full set up for your car if you call them. Carb, intake, lifters, cam, pretty much everything that you need to match up. Does Holley provide the same advice/set up?

As for the carb, I don't travel the highway very much but I intent on driving it a little more. I don't mind a mid fuel consumption range. Probably something around the 700-800 max. I simply want the car to hook off the line, not interested in top end speed. The Charger will be a street car only - no drag/track.

I'm collecting parts to do the engine. I remember my uncle building his 71 matching #'s Challenger and he used a Lunati cam. Any advice for a lumpy lunati cam +lifters+intake+carb setup?

Thanks,
 
the 5 pounds of vac at idle is still you major problem.try slowly covering the top of the carb with your hand while its running.if it smoothes out and dosnt stall when you get it covered all the way,then you have a vac leak.finding it is the next issue.do what dave said and put some water into a spray bottle.hit the base of the carb and all along the edges of the intake manifold where it bolts to the head.wnem you hit the bad spot it will try to stall or smooth out,could do either.that carb looks very old and could have an internal leak as well.
 
Thanks Colorado Dave,

I'm collecting parts to do the engine. I remember my uncle building his 71 matching #'s Challenger and he used a Lunati cam. Any advice for a lumpy lunati cam +lifters+intake+carb setup?

Thanks,

My advice would be don't go for a lumpy cam. You'll hate it without the proper rear end gears, stall converter, compression ratio. And i take it if the 440 has a 500 cfm carb right now, it sounds like it will take a bunch of effort to make a lumpy cam work well + it will be a pain in the *** to tune.

If it where me, I'd go with an aftermarket dual Plane intake (Edelbrock Performer RPM) VAC Secondary Holley 650-750 or the 600 - 750 edelbrock carb. an RV torquey cam, and a shift kit in the trans.

Just my $.02
 
This issue is in relation to a previous thread from about a week ago requesting help to choose a proper CARB for my stock 440 or have this one rebuilt.

I started to pull a couple things off and I am no mechanic by any means however, I noticed some pretty unusual things. These photo's below are posted from a center shot of the carb,side stepping around the passenger side and a slight picture from behind the left side of the carb.

In the previous thread I had described a gas leak as well as a vaccuum leak at idle which is less than 5. (this is still happening)

In the first picture I notice two problems highlighted in red. The circled red object at the top of the picture was an attempt by someone to seal a port into the carb. They used silicone and some kind of rubber cap and it definitely did not seal the port. The second red circle near the electronic choke has the same thing - silicone with red cap.

The second is a shot of the carb from the passenger side. There is an electric choke with no wires going anywhere to it. I only drive it in the summer and wouldn't need it but it still looks unusual. The rubber hose with the garden hose clamps - this looks completely sloppy and not even sure if that is legal?

The third and fourth pictures indicate my final conclusion that this is not the right carburetor for my 440 - why is there a gap into my intake? It looks as if this carb is too short and doesn't fit the span of the intake at all.

I pulled some numbers off the carb and maybe someone can tell me a little more about which road I should go down.

There are raised numbers on the top of the carb reading 2312.
On the front of the carb stamped into the steel B0 9501S
On the left hand side of the carb (just under choke arm) 0-1862.

What is the proper original carb for this car?

After I figure out the problem with some advice from you guys I will post again explaining exactly what I am looking to do with the engine. Can only absorb so much as I am a fresh mind!

Thanks for your help

- - - Updated - - -

Looks like the pictures reversed themselves. As described in first post - Picture 1 uploaded as picture 4.

- - - Updated - - -

The pictures reversed themselves. In my description to picture 1 is shows up last. I am sure you guys/women will catch on.

First off you haven't stated what year the car is, that will determin what carb it used. If its a late 60's car you should be running a Carter AVS.
 
1969 Dodge Charger R/T


Carter 4618s avs and you will need the correct choke also, about 55.00 and while you are at it get a new carb line that screws into the carb. If the car has A/C then the number is 4640s
 
If I am looking at going with a Holley 750-800 cfm double pump. What Holley number am I looking for. Example. I need a Carter 4618s AVS if I want to stick with original. So it's a Holley 4618s or are there a couple #'s that fit my 440?

Thanks
 
Tendy30: Realize that the Holley double pumper carbs are mechanical secondaries and are built to use with a manual transmission or an automatic with a higher than stock stall converter. A better choice for a street car, as has been said, is a Holley with vacuum secondaries or an Edelbrock 750 if you're going to hotrod the motor. The Edelbrock set-up is a comprehensive group of parts that will work well together; Or there are several good cams available from a variety of manufacturers and everyone you ask will have their own personal opinion usually based on their own experience. You can go on any of the manufacturers' sites and download or order catalogs that have a lot of information that will help you make decisions. All of the major manufacturers also have tech lines where they will make recommendations based on your set of circumstances. BUT FIRST, we need to find out why the vacuum is so low. Throwing parts at a motor that's sick is a waste of your time and money. Did that other member ever come by to check out your motor? BTW, Carter and Holley carburetors are/were made by 2 different companies. The numbers don't cross over. Jegs.com and Summitracing.com also have very comprehensive catalogs that show a huge variety of parts.
 
I recommend 850. Mighty Demon.
 
If I am looking at going with a Holley 750-800 cfm double pump. What Holley number am I looking for. Example. I need a Carter 4618s AVS if I want to stick with original. So it's a Holley 4618s or are there a couple #'s that fit my 440?

Thanks

If you want to compare apples to apples then the Holley carb you would want would be a 780 with vacuum secondaries.
 
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