Cost of metal work?

Feral · Jul 22, 2013

BarrsRestoration said:
If they priced it that cheap, look out! Ballparks are for fun and games, and that ain't gonna be fun.
I suspect you have a can of worms, just no one has removed the lid yet. When they do, the price should go up if it's done correctly. I've opened quite a few of those cans, and I'm speaking based my own experience.
You mentioned you have a used trunk floor and quarter sections from another car, and they need "minimal patching". The labor for removing and repairing those parts will probably exceed the cost of new parts. Judging by the condition of the floor, the inside of the torsion bar cross member is rotten and thin, if not eaten through by now. Where the driver's side frame rail joins the cross member is probably toast, too. Is there swelling around the spot welds of the shock mounts? Remove the front wheels and check the top of the frame rails where the upper control arm is mounted. It's like a tray that holds dirt and crud. Make sure it's not eaten through or so swollen between the layers that it needs to be cut out and replaced.
Your left rocker is shot and so is the lt. hinge pillar. Very possibly the inner rocker is eaten away also, where it joins the cross member. If you can, trim away enough floor to determine how solid the adjoining metal is. Peel away the floor pan above the cross member and dig the dirt out of it. Remove the dash assembly and heater box, seats and all interior trim. Pull the gas tank out, drivetrain too if it's going to be rebuilt.
I'm not trying to discourage you from taking this on, only trying to enlighten you so that it doesn't end up being a dream you dump lots of money into that exceeds your finances or ability. Good luck!

The "ballpark" estimate doesn't include parts, so it would be closer to $8,000. That's assuming I don't need to buy even more parts.

About the frame, once I park the car somewhere out of the weather I plan to deconstruct what I can of it and I'd like to pull the front and rear frames out from under the car entirely. Me and my father can handle whatever work that needs to be done to the frame.

The inner rocker panel is in good shape, I pulled the skid plate off and the rusted sheet metal is limited to what is seen in the picture. I poked around inside that with a screw driver and it feels solid, but I'm no body man, so... yeah...

And "hinge pillar", I'm assuming that's the section where the door hinges are mounted to the body; that's solid.

http://s279.photobucket.com/user/3440matt/library/1971 Super Bee?sort=3&page=1

here are more pictures of the car from the person I bought it off of.

Cornpatch MO said:
I feel your pain. Unless this car is especially important to you, I would spend an extra $3-5 K for a car that does not need floor pans or extensive metal replacement. Unless you have a lot of sheet metal fabrication experience. Things like this is what stalls out a rebuild project. Good Luck.....................MO

Other than the fact it's a Super Bee, and a car I thought I'd never have a chance to own; it holds no sentimental value beyond that. If I could find another Super Bee that didn't need as much metal work, but needed parts I'd be all up for it. But they're exceptionally rare in my neck of the woods, and being that I've blown all the money I had on this car; I can't really make a deal for another Super Bee for some time.

BarrsRestoration · Jul 22, 2013

There are so many ways I could respond, but maybe pictures are better.
I'm doing a father-son car for a guy who did not realize how much his car needed when he bought it. Luckily, he can afford the parts and have me do this work.

Look similar?

- - - Updated - - -

Here it is cut apart.

BIGSHCLUNK · Jul 22, 2013

I know what I've spent so far on my E-bod (which is a gazillion times better than your pics). IMHO - unless you really got grande cohones($$$$)... it be better as a donor car.......... I had a (still have) a Charger that looks like that . There were a ton of guys telling me to fix it. I thought R U NUTS???

Then there's my GTX (avatar pic) not as bad as your pics by any means. But still needs everything! I've looked around , I can buy a done one for less, .....................

BarrsRestoration · Jul 22, 2013

last ones

I realize you're not taking your roof off, but a lot of what you see cut away on this Charger is what you will need to do on yours. And btw, after seeing your pictures, your hinge pillar is shot, and so is the torsion bar cross member.

Feral · Jul 22, 2013

BarrsRestoration said:
I realize you're not taking your roof off, but a lot of what you see cut away on this Charger is what you will need to do on yours. And btw, after seeing your pictures, your hinge pillar is shot, and so is the torsion bar cross member.

View attachment 128883 View attachment 128884 View attachment 128885 View attachment 128886 View attachment 128887 View attachment 128888

Know when you said you're not trying to dissuade me from my project? Well, you're doing a mighty fine job of it!

There is no way I could ever afford that kind of work, hell, I'm stressing about this $5K price tag as it is. And I've got even more work to do on top of that, brakes, engine, interior...

Judging by the pictures I've given, what do you think it would take to get it done right?

Mopars & Missiles · Jul 22, 2013

Feral said:
Know when you said you're not trying to dissuade me from my project? Well, you're doing a mighty fine job of it!

There is no way I could ever afford that kind of work, hell, I'm stressing about this $5K price tag as it is. And I've got even more work to do on top of that, brakes, engine, interior...

Judging by the pictures I've given, what do you think it would take to get it done right?

Don't ask questions that you can't afford to hear the answer too. :laughing6: I'm afraid the answer you will get will be something like this: $5k is just a drop in the bucket.

:happy1:

Feral · Jul 22, 2013

I'm not going to let the price tag stop me, I'm getting sick of **** like that stopping me from having nice things. I'll figure something out, I'll hold a body shop hostage if I have too. lol

Mopars & Missiles · Jul 22, 2013

I completely understand, and I hope you can get your car done the way you want it. I really do. But there are so many people that start a project like this without really understanding what the true cost is, they get into a bit and then find out it is more than they bargained for and end up abandoning the whole project.

I think myself and the others were just trying to make sure you had your eyes WIDE open on this.

Good luck with your project. :sunny:

BeastlyBirdie · Jul 22, 2013

Your car could be done, but the only way you would be able to keep the price down would be to do it yourself. That means, can you weld, or are you willing to learn? What about painting? How are you going to remove the rust-blasting? How much do you know about building engines, transmissions, and rear ends? Wiring? Suspension?
Not trying at all to dissuade you, just trying to point out what it takes to get something that looks like what you have to the point you can drive it.
Now, the good-if you need information, the guys on this board will share a wealth of knowledge. Have questions how to...blank.. yep, an answer or five will appear. But the pics if your car make it look like an involved project, not a father and son, weekend warrior type.

Mr.SpeedFreak · Jul 22, 2013

I agree with what these guys are saying 100%. From the pictures you posted, there are holes both in the rocker by the sill plate and also in the door pillar, so they are likely pretty well shot.

I had no welding/rust repair experience before I got into it with my Charger (21 years old, never taken on that big of a project) and I know those look like small, fixable holes, but the metal around it is most likely beercan-thin. Try wire-wheeling and welding it and you'll find out fast how a small hole can turn out to be worse than you think. Replacing those two sections would open up a whole 'nother can of worms but is not impossible.

Can't speak on the torsion bar x member from my experience, but judging by the floor it would definitely need a very close look. I'm sure all this sounds pretty disheartening, but everyone's just trying to help and give realistic advice. 3k (even without parts) sounds worrying to me. But all of this can be done yourself if you're willing to put the work in and spend some time learning from the old guys that have been there and done that. There's a lot of really knowledgeable people on here

IMHFO if you're dead-set on this 'bee, especially considering your parts would need to be removed from your parts car, you would be best off buying a blair spotweld cutter (plasma cutter ain't gonna be what you want) and practice welding some thin sheet metal, and do the work yourself. Hiring a quality shop to do a quality job would cost some pretty serious $$$. But it's all up to you

ccasion14:

Feral · Jul 22, 2013

BeastlyBirdie said:
Your car could be done, but the only way you would be able to keep the price down would be to do it yourself. That means, can you weld, or are you willing to learn? What about painting? How are you going to remove the rust-blasting? How much do you know about building engines, transmissions, and rear ends? Wiring? Suspension?
Not trying at all to dissuade you, just trying to point out what it takes to get something that looks like what you have to the point you can drive it.
Now, the good-if you need information, the guys on this board will share a wealth of knowledge. Have questions how to...blank.. yep, an answer or five will appear. But the pics if your car make it look like an involved project, not a father and son, weekend warrior type.

I can't weld, but I'm sure I can learn. I'm willing to do the work on floor and trunk pans myself, and in places in which the welds don't need to look aesthetically pleasing. But the exterior panel work, I want and need a professional to do. My dad's got a mig and he's good at welding, and we've got a plasma cutter. As for painting... By the time I set myself up a proper garage, buy all the necessary tools and equipment; I'd be better off having a professional doing it.

I'm good with nut and bolt parts, I can take just about anything apart if I've got the tools and the desire to do so. (Though putting things together are more challenging lol!)

Mr.SpeedFreak said:
I agree with what these guys are saying 100%. From the pictures you posted, there are holes both in the rocker by the sill plate and also in the door pillar, so they are likely pretty well shot.

I had no welding/rust repair experience before I got into it with my Charger (21 years old, never taken on that big of a project) and I know those look like small, fixable holes, but the metal around it is most likely beercan-thin. Try wire-wheeling and welding it and you'll find out fast how a small hole can turn out to be worse than you think. Replacing those two sections would open up a whole 'nother can of worms but is not impossible.

Can't speak on the torsion bar x member from my experience, but judging by the floor it would definitely need a very close look. I'm sure all this sounds pretty disheartening, but everyone's just trying to help and give realistic advice. 3k (even without parts) sounds worrying to me. But all of this can be done yourself if you're willing to put the work in and spend some time learning from the old guys that have been there and done that. There's a lot of really knowledgeable people on here

IMHFO if you're dead-set on this 'bee, especially considering your parts would need to be removed from your parts car, you would be best off buying a blair spotweld cutter (plasma cutter ain't gonna be what you want) and practice welding some thin sheet metal, and do the work yourself. Hiring a quality shop to do a quality job would cost some pretty serious $$$. But it's all up to you
ccasion14:

I've thought about practicing on some sheet metal.

Mr.SpeedFreak · Jul 22, 2013

As far as doing the quarters and exterior stuff that needs to look good, if you can weld a floor pan in, you can weld a quarter. Since it's sheet metal, any continuous seam on the body would be done with a bunch of single spot welds spaced apart until the seam is completely welded (so the metal doesn't get hot and warp), then grind the welds down. You're not doing a continuous bead that needs to look nice and be left alone, so if you know how to dial in the welder to get good penetration, and know how to do single "stiches," you should be fine with that kind of stuff.

Also you're better off with a spotweld cutter than a plasma cutter. Cut the spot welds on whatever panel you're replacing, pull the panel off, place the new one, copy the factory plug welds where you cut them, you're done. They're cheap and just use a power drill.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000LQOCRK/ref=aw_1st_sims_4/184-8580976-9557520?pi=SL500_SY115

hunt2elk · Jul 22, 2013

I agree with what everybody here is saying. Your car is definitely restorable, but I think it's going to be more of a project than you realize at this time. Most of us can't afford to hire someone to do the bodywork on a car like yours, so we do absolutely everything that we possibly can ourselves. This is why some of the projects on here take several years to finish. If you do tackle this car, it needs to be media blasted to find all the hidden surprises also. I'm not trying to discourage you, but you need to understand how big of a project this is before getting it torn apart and then becoming overwhelmed. And whatever you do don't take it to the shop that gave you that low estimate. 5K will about buy the metal you need - the labor will be a lot more than that. That money won't even get you a Texas Toy Box or True Muscle body.

Feral · Jul 22, 2013

hunt2elk said:
I agree with what everybody here is saying. Your car is definitely restorable, but I think it's going to be more of a project than you realize at this time. Most of us can't afford to hire someone to do the bodywork on a car like yours, so we do absolutely everything that we possibly can ourselves. This is why some of the projects on here take several years to finish. If you do tackle this car, it needs to be media blasted to find all the hidden surprises also. I'm not trying to discourage you, but you need to understand how big of a project this is before getting it torn apart and then becoming overwhelmed. And whatever you do don't take it to the shop that gave you that low estimate. 5K will about buy the metal you need - the labor will be a lot more than that. That money won't even get you a Texas Toy Box or True Muscle body.

How much would it cost to have the car media blasted, and where would be a good place to take it for that?

Clay Dots · Jul 22, 2013

Feral, Your starting with a great car and if you bought it right you will be fine, you need to shop around for your metal work you cant do and shop different vendors for your metal parts too, some overcharge but 30-40 % on some items. If you can find a new guy just starting his business who needs work or an older body guy who has a shop at his home might be a good option of course get references and make sure they know this kind of workl The down side is it could take a while to get it back but then some of the expensive shops take years to to get these type of work done. My car needed all the stuff yours does and I took the time to do my homework (as above) and saved a ton. My car is still in the final stages but I can sleep well knowin I didnt buy a car with a pretty paintjob with a nightmare underneath, my car went down to bare metal and now its solid, straight and safe! Best Wishes on the Bee!

hunt2elk · Jul 23, 2013

Feral said:
How much would it cost to have the car media blasted, and where would be a good place to take it for that?

$1000 - $2000 around here and well worth it. They charge by the hour so it depends on what you bring them. Cut off your rotted stuff ahead of time so you are not paying for those areas. Check out some of the posts from Donny on here. He does blasting full time and is very good at it. He has written some great threads about it.

vanrj1 · Jul 23, 2013

Mine started out and kept going and going and going at $50/hr. after 3 years it was over $20k
Make sure you know what you have before you start. I got to the point of no return, Good Luck!

Feral · Aug 19, 2013

Well, I'm going to do whatever I can myself. I figure I can probably handle the floor and trunk pans, possibly even the rocker panel. So, I'm about to start work before to long, and I'm about to order my first panel; should I start on my floor pan first, or my rocker panel?

Donny · Aug 20, 2013

Feral, Hi. Please post more pictures of YOUR car, not the influx of OTHERS cars and or projects. I'd like to offer you some straight advice based on what I see. I've media blasted perhaps close to 75 car bodies, mostly MOPARS, and, sadly I've become very good at judging how things will actually be based on initial inspection(s) of the metal before blasting. Good luck, sage advice: Body Shops are the polar opposite from Restoration Shops. The mentality of each is completely opposite. Body shops work for the Insurance companies and get payed to change a fender - get payed for 3 hrs work, and they hustle to do it in 15 minutes, and pocket the rest. Restoration folks work 4 hours to repair a fender, and get payed for four hours work. This is why there's 200+ Body shops per 1 Restoration shop, and even the so-called 'Restoration Shops' are mostly that in name only.

kb67mopar · Aug 20, 2013

There are two ways to skin a cat. The first is say " I don't know how to do it" and attempt to pay some body to do the work. Or there is my way...say well I don't know how but how hard can it be?...tools are cheaper then their labor so just dive in. Start on page one of my build thread and go through....I started out not having a clue but dissasembling my parts car and just jumping in is how I got going. Soon you will have something to be proud of and can say you did it yourself. ..and the skills you've acquired in the process. You and I don't need to be pros...just good enough to make ourselves smile.

Restorations section under 1967 coronet deluxe......I'd post a link but phone fail

Cost of metal work?

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