Help me build my car

I want to take my 66 satty and either beef up the current 318 poly or take the money and do a engine transplant. Been searching craigslist and found a 440 engine/tranny for sale as well as a donor car with a 383/tranny and even a 413 engine/tranny from another cl car.

Knowing the poly will be harder to get parts for and limited in choices, the 440/383's are easier to modify from what I have read on this site, so that would give me numerous vendors to source from.

A 413 would be different and I am not sure what types of choices there are for modifications and unsure if I will need to perform major tweeking to get it to go into the satty.

From all of the knowledgeable members here, let me hear what direction you would go in and why?

Do your own homework on each motor, as machine work costs can vary by geographical location and parts prices are all in who you get them through.

I opted to beef up the poly...just because most would toss it for a big block, making it more unusual to see under the hood. Is it a monster?...no. Does it still sh!t and git?...yes. Reminds me of my `70 Duster 340 I had as a younger man. It idles smooth, stays cool, yet draws just as much attention as any other '66 with a nice rumble.

With guidance (and parts) from Gary Pavlovich and a local machine shop willing to work with me, I ended up:

Bored .040 over
2.02 intake/ 1.60 exhaust valves
Heads ported
Hydraulic lifters
Improved rocker assemblies
Re-ground original cam
Polished original crank
Balanced rotating assembly

Total machine work and parts for me to assemble, was into $4,500

To get the full benefits of what went into the motor I added:
`62 cast iron 4bbl intake ($275...Craigslist)
Edelbrock AVS 650 Thunder Series w/ electric choke ($325 Reman. Adavance Auto Parts - online)
Skip White electronic distributor ($56 Skip White - online)
TTi ceramic coated headers & 2 1/2" exhaust ($150 less than any other competitor! Dave and Chris at ModernMusclePerformance.com)

I also swapped out the old 2 core radiator for a 4 core.

Good luck with your choice!

Dump the poly.

How fast do you want to go? If the 440 is from before 72 get that for sure, afterwards it depends on the price. How fast do you want to go? Assuming its a decent engine and you just want a fun, fast cruiser and don't want to spend a ton just re-ring it and put bearings in, lap in the valves, get yourself the 224/234 cam from summit racing with matching valve springs, and you SHOULD do a set of pushrods but probably can get away without it. Slap it back together and go driving, it will absolutely murder the 318 poly setup you have now. I would stay away from the 413 unless its really cheap and certain that it doesn't need to be bored out and rebuilt because you'd need custom pistons. Not to knock Dako (who has a nice car by the way), but hes into his Poly for 4500 bucks. Assuming you're getting this engine and trans for about 1000 you'll be into this for 1500 and you'd mop up the floor with him. Even if you bore it out and match the work he did you could be into it for around the same amount of money and make much more power. Cubic inches are the cheapest way to go fast.

Nice 66!

Craigslist 440 engine/tranny is $2k but I've ask the seller what his best rock bottom price is, I have plenty of time to wait it out and see if any others come up on CL. I appreciate the information so far but keep them coming.


Bill

Dako said:

Do your own homework on each motor, as machine work costs can vary by geographical location and parts prices are all in who you get them through.

I opted to beef up the poly...just because most would toss it for a big block, making it more unusual to see under the hood. Is it a monster?...no. Does it still sh!t and git?...yes. Reminds me of my `70 Duster 340 I had as a younger man. It idles smooth, stays cool, yet draws just as much attention as any other '66 with a nice rumble.

With guidance (and parts) from Gary Pavlovich and a local machine shop willing to work with me, I ended up:

Bored .040 over
2.02 intake/ 1.60 exhaust valves
Heads ported
Hydraulic lifters
Improved rocker assemblies
Re-ground original cam
Polished original crank
Balanced rotating assembly

Total machine work and parts for me to assemble, was into $4,500

To get the full benefits of what went into the motor I added:
`62 cast iron 4bbl intake ($275...Craigslist)
Edelbrock AVS 650 Thunder Series w/ electric choke ($325 Reman. Adavance Auto Parts - online)
Skip White electronic distributor ($56 Skip White - online)
TTi ceramic coated headers & 2 1/2" exhaust ($150 less than any other competitor! Dave and Chris at ModernMusclePerformance.com)

I also swapped out the old 2 core radiator for a 4 core.

Good luck with your choice!

Click to expand...

Cool, Dako. Gary is the man when it comes to Polys.

Yea dump the Poly and follow along like every else does, 440 or max wedge, ho hum, dime a dozen in the show fields, no originality both with the car and thought process.

There's no replacment for displacement! Go 440!

It is nice to see alternative engines like the poly used. Your poly is paid for so you do not have go and pay to get an engine to rebuild. So you save on the initial investment. Either way you go if you rebuild an engine ground up your going to machine it and change parts. The big question is what are you going to use it for? Drag racing, cruising around, parades, long trips etc. It is easy to get sucked in to building a monster. A lot of guys overbuild the engine and the vehicle loses it luster due to poor idle, drivability, fuel economy etc. My 2 cents build it for a combination of power and efficiency. Your wallet will thank you. Good luck with your project.

Some good comments so far...thanks for the compliments...and I do not take offense to comments promoting something other than the poly. We build cars to suit us individually, not the masses.

GTX MATT & Last Exit, both posed some very good questions that you need to answer yourself in order to make a motor choice that YOU will ultimately be happy with. As has been stated on other posts on this site: It's your car, and you need to build what makes you happy.

Note: Either way you go, in building any engine...at some point you can surpass the drivetrains capacity and either end up with something dangerous or expending more cash getting the overall combo right.

Now, let's get back to folks providing their combos, trials, & how much it cost them to get there...and what they had to add (traction aids, brakes, cooling improvements, etc.) to make it all work.

Blackheart said:

Yea dump the Poly and follow along like every else does, 440 or max wedge, ho hum, dime a dozen in the show fields, no originality both with the car and thought process.

Click to expand...

A 318 Poly in a B body is not an original and novel idea, they made tons of them right from the factory. People dump Polys and install 440s because they want to go fast.

66Satellite_in_NC said:

I want to take my 66 satty and either beef up the current 318 poly or take the money and do a engine transplant. Been searching craigslist and found a 440 engine/tranny for sale as well as a donor car with a 383/tranny and even a 413 engine/tranny from another cl car.

Knowing the poly will be harder to get parts for and limited in choices, the 440/383's are easier to modify from what I have read on this site, so that would give me numerous vendors to source from.

A 413 would be different and I am not sure what types of choices there are for modifications and unsure if I will need to perform major tweeking to get it to go into the satty.

From all of the knowledgeable members here, let me hear what direction you would go in and why?

Click to expand...

What do you expect out of the car is the 1st question I will ask ??

what will it be used for ?? mostly street & cruising or street/strip ??

what's your budget ?? that could be the ultimate deciding factor
do you have the budget, knowledge & tools even books necessary, to do an engine & tranny swap ?? or will you pay someone else to do it for you ??

what radiator do you have a small 22" one or a wide 26" one ??

does the car have A/C, power brakes, power steering etc. ?? what options does it have ??

what kind of exhaust system do you plan on running ?? do you plan on using headers ??

do you want a performance based combo or just a fun cruiser ??

I personally like the slightly narrower, slightly shorter & slightly lighter, 361-383-400 Low Deck B-series engines & 440 3.750" crank turned/machined, reduced counterweight radius & mains sizes, decent rod bolts decent forged or hyper-tech pistons, 9.5:1 or so compression ratios to keep it pump gas friendly, with decent well done heads, good quality camshaft proper style & length push-rods, springs, lifters, retainers, locks & seals for your intended usage {how the car will be driven}, good aluminum intake, good adequate fuel system, Holley carb/s, properly sized headers to let it breath, K&N filter, quality oil system & pan, quality hotter ignition system & distributor... no matter what engine you choose to go with a 361 & 383 can be had pretty cheap & there are allot of parts available reasonably priced for them...

what type of trans auto or 4 speed ?? if it's an auto-trans, get an appropriate stall converter, for your specific rear gears, camshaft & type of driving conditions... if it's a 4 speed then get a good flywheel, clutch & bell-housing {flywheel, clutch, scatter shield all SFI appr. if you plan on ever taking it to the track}

a stroked Poly with multiple carbs, would be pretty cool too, but there is allot easier & cheaper ways to make power thou...

a stock 413ci with good heads, a stock 67-72 440ci or even a well tuned 383ci 67 & latter, will be a "night & day difference" from the stock 318ci Poly...

a 361-383-400ci will be about the same weight as the 318ci poly too, so the front suspension would work well still...

what is it you want to do ??, that's what really matter, then we can help you after the point or tell you what is a good idea or not...

I would also, "highly suggest" you get a few "How to" {tune Holley carburetors, tune Mopar ignitions, trans repairs etc.}type or reference books on Mopar engines & builds... one that covers allot of the basics is Mopar Performance "Mopar Engines" 9th edition Part # P5249704... , if you plan on ever running the car at the track. I would also highly suggest getting the MP book "Chassis" 9th edition Part # P5007160... I would also highly suggest you get a Factory Service Manual for your specific, year, make & model of car too... like my signature says "Fill you library, before you fill your garage", knowledge is the key, these few books & many others, are all a very good thing/idea to have just for reading, or references back to, if nothing else... Mancini Racing has a great reference book selection usually...Good luck

If can determine if 1 or 2 or all 3 replacement mills short blocks will run as is so no rebuild immediately necessary I would pick the best of the best 3 engines given price and and what comes with and rebuild the heads, replace intake with aluminum and do mild small stage upgrades with CL parts as you go. If any of the 383, 413, 440 will run w/o short block work you will have more power immediately than the existing motor. Bonus as you know and others have said, parts are readily available, with more options, and both used orig and used or new perf parts and cost less for same type of upgrades to perf etc.

The 383 and 413 def have steel cranks, the 440 may depending on year although that's not huge if the 440 is a good running engine, compression ratio of later 440 engines is a bigger deal as it's lower perf and will cost to change.

just my thoughts

There's a lot good advice in this thread. Setting a budget for the engine is important, but do forget to make sure the brakes, transmission, cooling system, suspension, u-joints and rear are able to handle your new power plant mild or wild. You'll have to consider that in your overall budget. Do your research. Get yourself a note book and layout what you'd like to do for each of the engine combs your thinking about. Now you will have visual of the parts, machine work and cost. Last, make a commitment to the your desired goal. Changing your combination in the middle of a build could prove costly, result in a mismatched parts causing poor performance and lots of frustration.

What I would like is a good cruiser but on demand I would be able to stab it and know that there is power under the hood. The transmission is the stock auto transmission and not sure of the size of the radiator. I have the garage, good majority of tools and the engine lift to perform the pull and re-install. Right now I'm in the infant stages of this car and would like to start stockpiling the things needed for an upgrade. Once I've got all that I think I'll need I can proceed. I agree that I will have to rebuild or upgrade things along the way to suit whatever direction I go on the motor so I will have to set a budget and try to divert money towards that. I appreciate everything mentioned and enjoy getting everyone's opinions and knowledge.

....you could always stroke the poly motor. I know not cheap, but really cool.

If u want to be original get a 392 hemi with hiborn injection and stuff it in your engine bay. I say get a motor from CME or one of them outfits. Its cheaper in the long run and you get a warranty too. That's the way I'm leaning for my next project. I learned the hard way. $ goes really quick building an engine. Shipping, machining, and special tools add up.

Chrysler Power Magazine is doing a 318 Poly stroker build.

Put a 440 in it, it's a no brainer. Simple drop-in with the correct motor mounts. I converted mine from a 318 LA. I am still using the original radiator with no problems. If your tight on money find a good running stock 440, add an intake, headers and carb. The torque gain alone is worth the conversion any day, especially in B bodies. Then when you have the funds you can build a nasy 440 or stroker big block if you like.

Parts are NOt hard to get for the Poly except pistons which are made by Egge machine only in cast but in the ratio you want via a flat top slug. Most all "LA" parts will swap over. You'll need a core engine for replacement heads, timing cover or acc. Brackets.

The cost of a B engine swap is only mounts and a larger radiator. Everything else should be just peanuts in cost.

Stroking the 318 is a little pricey. Performance limited by head flow. Though I do not think you'll have a problem creating a big fat torque curve.

Think about it and draw up a plan. Then Stick to it.