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Only runs at 54* advance iNITIAL!!

DBSHEA

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I'm pulling my hair out. Long story short I picked up someone else's mess. At some point someone loved this car and then it fell into the wrong hands.

72 400/727 charger with electronic ignition
Unknown cam (but not stock, don't know specs but I can see by the markings it's an aftermarket core)
Holley street avenger 650

The car has obviously had some ignition issues, the hood is burnt. When I received it, the wiring was shade tree. Msd box hard wired to a procomp coil and distributor. I gutted all the wires, repaired or replaced back to factory. Could not get the car to run without blowing fire out the top till I advanced to 54.5 degrees. No detonation, smooth idle. 19" in park about 16 in gear.

Checked that the balancer hadn't spun, double triple checked firing order and plug routing.

Bought a new mopar distributor and stabbed it at 10* initial. Nothing, I can't even get it to fart long enough to out run the starter . Again verified all my wiring and order.

So the issue is internal, I'm assuming the valve timing is wrong. Maybe s worn timing set, maybe cams not in right, no clue. I'm throwing this out to you guys in the hopes that the mopar pros can shed some light.
 
Sounds like timing and or/cam issue. Also, put a decent carb on it to get it sorted out. Those are horrible carbs to dial in.
 
I remember one where the ali set it at 70 DEGREEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:pottytrain5:
 
sounds like either the cam's not in right, or the distributor gear isn't in right

Elaborate on the gear being wrong. Not something I had considered. I brought #1 up on comp stroke and dropped the distributor in so the rotor is at the correct post. Is my process wrong?

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Sounds like timing and or/cam issue. Also, put a decent carb on it to get it sorted out. Those are horrible carbs to dial in.


That's what really has me scratching my head. With all that advance at it it really runs pretty well. The carb needed a little tweaking but it seems to be playing nicely. It makes my brain hurt trying to figure out how this engine is running set up like this.
 
If your cam was off a tooth or two in any way, you never have 16-19inch of vac. Your pointer and/or damper are off. I would think that 54 degree adv. is false reading.
 
I'll agree that 54 deg is a false reading. Verify true mechanical TDC with the timing pointer and balancer. You can even go as far as checking the intake opening with a degree wheel and dial indicator. Since it's a big block it's easy to pull the intake and set the indicator on the lifter. This will tell you how the timing chain is phased with the cam.
 
Once you have done what Meep said, and provided it is correct, pull the distributor drive gear, move it a tooth or two, and see where it looks to be sitting.
 
I've verified tdc with a piston stop, balancer and pointer are correct. The 54* was on a digital dial back and I verified with an old snap on dial back.
 
It would seen to me that the engine would "buck" the starter if you had that much advance and it was accurate. If you truly feel every thing else is right and it runs with no detonation and it doesn't over heat and the exhaust doesn't smell like you're drinking a glass of NOX and it still concerns you; pull the front of the engine off and check the chain/gears.

keep us posted....
 
It would seen to me that the engine would "buck" the starter if you had that much advance and it was accurate. If you truly feel every thing else is right and it runs with no detonation and it doesn't over heat and the exhaust doesn't smell like you're drinking a glass of NOX and it still concerns you; pull the front of the engine off and check the chain/gears.

keep us posted....

I have to agree, I think something is going to have to come apart before I sort this out. And unfortunately for me, I'm a "if it ain't broke, take it apart until it is" kinda guy.
 
Can you verify the dial back lights are correct with a non dial back light and see if the mark is off scale? Just to be sure #1 is the front drivers side cylinder. Sillier things have happened to me.
 
Can you verify the dial back lights are correct with a non dial back light and see if the mark is off scale? Just to be sure #1 is the front drivers side cylinder. Sillier things have happened to me.

Kinda what I was thinking. Make sure the timing light is plugged onto the #1 wire. You can't assume that you are on the #1 wire just by looking at the distributor. I've seen where guys have moved plug wires around on the dist cap (usually one space one way or the other) for various reasons. Trace the wire back from the plug. It's a mistake I've made before.
 
I've done that too, heck I do it often but unfortunately I've redone it 3 times and had a friend check to be sure. Been correct each time.
 
And the vacuum advance is disconnected and plugged when setting the timing? (54* with vacuum can hooked to full manifold vacuum would be OK).
 
Once you have done what Meep said, and provided it is correct, pull the distributor drive gear, move it a tooth or two, and see where it looks to be sitting.
You can drop in the dist in any position, as long as #1 is on the respective cap location.
No real such thing as dist drive gear one tooth off. The only Trouble you might run in to is a plug wire being to short to reach across the cap, or the vac advance canister might hit something if you have to rotate it a bunch when setting timing.

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Verify the reflector is installed for Big block rotation.... I had unusually high advance once when I had the reflector installed for small block applications.
 
You can drop in the dist in any position, as long as #1 is on the respective cap location.
No real such thing as dist drive gear one tooth off. The only Trouble you might run in to is a plug wire being to short to reach across the cap, or the vac advance canister might hit something if you have to rotate it a bunch when setting timing.

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Verify the reflector is installed for Big block rotation.... I had unusually high advance once when I had the reflector installed for small block applications.


This is a new thing I haven't heard of. What's a reflector?
 
Are yo using an MSD distributor withthe Electronic Dial Back? If so it might give crazy numbers.

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You can drop in the dist in any position, as long as #1 is on the respective cap location.
No real such thing as dist drive gear one tooth off. The only Trouble you might run in to is a plug wire being to short to reach across the cap, or the vac advance canister might hit something if you have to rotate it a bunch when setting timing.

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Verify the reflector is installed for Big block rotation.... I had unusually high advance once when I had the reflector installed for small block applications.

Do you mean reluctor on Electronic Ignition Module in side Distributor?
 
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