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Can't get motor to fire... at all

M

Mr.Joshua

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Have a 383 that was supposed to run but has been sitting for years. Well I'm in the process of finding out if that's the case and am running into some strangeness I've never seen before. Flat out can't get it to fire.. at all. Tested everything I can think of.. New distributor, getting spark on all the wires, went over the firing order about a dozen times, checked TDC about 6 times (even visually checked that the valves were closed), freshly rebuilt carb, etc, etc.. It just cranks and cranks and all I can get out of it is a backfire every once in a while or hit on 1 or 2 cylinders then nothing. Really don't know what could be the issue. Air/Fuel and spark usually gets you some sort of combustion.. I'm getting nada.

I know its hard to help someone without even more info than what I've given or being there but any advise would be helpful. Will probably grab a compression gauge tomorrow to check all the cylinders. Never been so stumped with an old motor. Usually are pretty simple and straight forward.
 
Check the timing chain. if it was stock the plastic cam sprocket may have broke or fell apart.
 
hemihotrodca said:
Check the timing chain. if it was stock the plastic cam sprocket may have broke or fell apart.
Click to expand...

The cam seems to be moving just fine. I pulled the valve covers to initially check the rockers, push rods, valves, etc when first making sure the motor wasn't seized up.

Only thing I can think of is compression. But even then I've seen motors with horrible compression in multiple cylinders at least start up and run like crap.
 
Did you check spark to the actual plug? I had a case where a distributor rotor was cracked, which sent the spark down the distributor shaft. No bueno.

Are the plugs new and not fouled?

You might also squirt a little motor oil in each cylinder to get a good ring seal. The better vacuum and added compression pressure might not hurt.

Try some ether. I had an old flathead Ford V8 and it was damn near impossible to start, but good 'ol starting fluid seemed to get it going every time.
 
Meep-Meep said:
Did you check spark to the actual plug? I had a case where a distributor rotor was cracked, which sent the spark down the distributor shaft. No bueno.

Are the plugs new and not fouled?

You might also squirt a little motor oil in each cylinder to get a good ring seal. The better vacuum and added compression pressure might not hurt.

Try some ether. I had an old flathead Ford V8 and it was damn near impossible to start, but good 'ol starting fluid seemed to get it going every time.
Click to expand...

I did end up checking each wire with a spare plug grounded out to check for spark. All good. I forgot to mention too that of course I put new plugs in it. I first tried to start it with the old distributor and recent bought a brand new EI kit for it. So the ignition system is brand new. This latest attempt I went ahead and finally tried some starting fluid. Still nothing. I initially squirted a bit of MMO down each cylinder just coat the cylinders a bit before trying to start it but haven't since.
 
Are you moving the dizzy around? Timing could be off. How does it crank over? Pull a plug, is it wet with gas? What are we working with here? Stock 383? Rebuilt? Points? Is the gas bad? Where is it being drawn from? A tank that has been sitting?
 
If aerostart won't fire it up - "We have a problem Houston". It requires no spark and no gas to fire up, just some compression. I'm suspecting valves stuck open or rusted away. Compression test that sucker.
 
When I built my first big block years ago I had a similar problem. Not saying you would make the same mistake I did at 16, but, I wired the plugs for the wrong rotation.....
 
Have a 383 that was supposed to run but has been sitting for years. Well I'm in the process of finding out if that's the case and am running into some strangeness .....

You must have a check list to go thru when an engine been sitting for years.....Normal you need Air.... Fuel...... compression.... Spark to start the engine....Old gas is an NG.... use a fuel can until you clean lines & tank...Pull top of carb & see that floats are OK & clean.......

First you need a Fully charged & good Battery to do your checks....Check grounds & connection......

Pull the plugs and squirt some light oil in each cylinder. help for compression...

You stated that you put new ignition parts,you need troubleshoot as you go along........Recheck dizzy, spark plug wires to see if installed correctly......

Pull #1 cylinder until compression stoke ,air on finger & check rotor point at #1 & damper timing marks.... If you have spark... then go to fuel......
 
Even tho the cam is rolling around dosn't mean its in rite . also if a motor sits for along time the Hydralic lifters can bleed down so you may want to prime the oiling system ?
 
BeastlyBirdie said:
When I built my first big block years ago I had a similar problem. Not saying you would make the same mistake I did at 16, but, I wired the plugs for the wrong rotation.....
Click to expand...

Did the same thing thing too, when I was that age, dist cap had arrow of rotation...FOR A SMALL BLOCK. All I could get was backfire and fire balls.
Check your firing order vs distributor rotation.
 
I'm of the "oil up the cyl's"school.... you need compression
 
Pops1967GTX said:
You must have a check list to go thru when an engine been sitting for years.....Normal you need Air.... Fuel...... compression.... Spark to start the engine....Old gas is an NG.... use a fuel can until you clean lines & tank...Pull top of carb & see that floats are OK & clean.......

First you need a Fully charged & good Battery to do your checks....Check grounds & connection......

Pull the plugs and squirt some light oil in each cylinder. help for compression...

You stated that you put new ignition parts,you need troubleshoot as you go along........Recheck dizzy, spark plug wires to see if installed correctly......

Pull #1 cylinder until compression stoke ,air on finger & check rotor point at #1 & damper timing marks.... If you have spark... then go to fuel......
Click to expand...

I've done all of this except a proper compression test simply because I didn't have a compression gauge handy. And to be honest, I have no idea the history of this motor. Its a '61 block with '70 heads on it so if I had a guess, I would think its been overhauled at some point. Here's a little more detail of what I've done so far..

First pulled the intake and squirted some oil on the push rods/lifters then installed a new valley pan and replaced the stock intake manifold with a brand new Holley Street Dominator. Then bought a 750 Holley that was in decent shape but tore it down and rebuilt it anyway. Then pulled the old spark plugs and squirted a small amount of Marvel Mystery Oil in each cylinder and waited a day. Then changed the oil and filter, installed new spark plugs, pulled the valve covers and turned the engine over by hand to make sure the motor wasn't seized and to check if there was any issue with the valve system. All looked good so I checked the points gap on the old distributor and proceeded to timing. Checked TDC, re-ran the wires and got a battery to get her cranking.

Also have been pulling gas out of a gas can an not the old tank. After failing to start it after a few separate attempts, I yanked the old distributor and bought an electronic ignition kit (since I was going to do it anyway). After that install.. still nothing.

There was a comment on maybe being 180° out on the distributor. I'm not even sure how that happens. Is it a common mistake?

- - - Updated - - -

BIGSHCLUNK said:
I'm of the "oil up the cyl's"school.... you need compression
Click to expand...

I'll do that today. Have to run grab a compression gauge then I'll give 'er a go.
 
I am betting you either have the distributor 180 out or you have a small block distributor cap and followed the arrow for rotation. Remove the cap and turn the engine over. Watch the direction of the rotor. You can run the distributor 180 out if you get the #1 cylinder on TDC and see where your rotor is pointing. Use that as the starting point on your rotation and plug the wires in accordingly. I made the mistake years ago by following the arrow. Probably what you did also
 
Gpuller said:
Did the same thing thing too, when I was that age, dist cap had arrow of rotation...FOR A SMALL BLOCK. All I could get was backfire and fire balls.
Check your firing order vs distributor rotation.
Click to expand...

My teenage blunders were more in line with, say.. leaving the coil wire off and wondering why in the world it wouldn't start.. Then after a half hour of cussing, finally figuring out my stupidity.

No, checked my firing order, wires and distributor quite a few times now. Its all adding up... except the starting part.
 
Mr.Joshua said:
There was a comment on maybe being 180° out on the distributor. I'm not even sure how that happens. Is it a common mistake?
Click to expand...

The fact that you ask this makes me wonder if this is the problem. There are two top dead centers for the #1 cylinder. The first is when both intake and exhaust valves are closed and the distributor is (approximately) pointed at the #1 cylinder. This is what you need. The other TDC is when the engine exhaust valve has been open and it has pushed out the exhaust gasses and is about to draw in fresh air and fuel.

If the distributor is pointed to the #1 spark wire in the second case then it is 180 degrees off.

The bottom line of what I would do in your situation: Start with the basics, and question everything you have done. As soon as you assume that you have already checked something, then you may be overlooking the element that will fix the problem. I've been there many times!!!
 
Mr.Joshua said:
My teenage blunders were more in line with, say.. leaving the coil wire off and wondering why in the world it wouldn't start.. Then after a half hour of cussing, finally figuring out my stupidity.

No, checked my firing order, wires and distributor quite a few times now. Its all adding up... except the starting part.
Click to expand...

DID you nstall wires in 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 "counter-clockwise" firing order.
So do you have Spark??...if so.... leave dizzy a little loose , cranking engine to start(10to 15 BTDC) ..........check carb for fuel......

If the engine backfires, STOP ! You're 180 degrees OFF. Pull the cap and distributor, rotate the rotor 180 degrees...try again...

http://www.dippy.org/upgrade/ignition.pdf
 
pull #1 plug .Put finger over hole.Bump starter till compression blows finger off hole. Check to see if rotors pointing at #1 terminal, Easy to get dist. off 180. Its a screwdriver slot in the oil pump drive intrmediate shaft.its either right when you drop it in or 180 off.
 
Something not mentioned here...Valve lash. Are you running rollers or the stock type? If stock then most likely 180 degrees out. If rollers then it just might be that you have them adjusted too much and therefore not getting the right combination of lift needed to fire it up. This happened to me with my first 383 that I had for my project. It would crank and crank but not fire off. And every once and a while I would get a backfire through the carb. But I would check that you have the valve lash correct and it was done according to the FSM and the other resources out there for lashing the valves. Be careful too if this is a brand new but old re-build as the more you keep cranking it the better the chances for cam lobe wipe out and lifter failure....
 
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