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Does anyone get traction on the street?

67 B-body

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Before the obvious is stated,,,, I know the street is NO race prepped track!
However, it seems that some guys are getting ALLOT more traction than I am...... My car is just blistering the Hoosier Quick Time Pro's on the street with a fast jab of the throttle!!!!! It is completely effortless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have 3 way adjustable shocks up front set to 90-10, 50-50 in the rear.... Home made Caltrac setup "on S/S springs",,, I know, I know.... Mono leafs are better.... Battery is in the trunk for weight dist, fiberglass hood for weight reduction, Big aluminum heads certainly weight ALLOT less, lighter aluminum radiator....
It just seems like it should be spinning less than it does.... I thought about raising the front end with the torsion bars a bit,,, Has anyone done this to help out??? I didn't do it initially, because I figured whatever slinging effect up I could get to transfer weight on the rear wheels would be gone....

I went for a drive yesterday and just couldn't get it to hook with any aggressive acceleration, even if I spun them a bit "short burn out" to heat them up, and then stopped and took off again...

Any secrets out there??
 
How much air pressure are you running? I have MT et streets on mine. With 30 lbs., smoke em up. With 16 , no spinning. Thats at the track though. I wouldn't drive around with 16lbs. In my tires.
 
I have to check the actual PSI... I haven't put a gauge on the rears yet this spring / summer..... Just got it out for the first run around the block yesterday.
I don't have them THAT low "16psi", but I remember them not being at a typical street tire PSI either....
I'll check tonight....
 
That may be your answer. When I had drag radials they were slippery, just like any road tire, at 32 psi.

BTW, if your are not at sustained 70 mph or canyon-carving on corners you may be able to run pretty low pressure on the street. When just cruising city streets or side roads I noticed NO heat buildup on my sidewalls and it wasn't squirrely either. I just compared the heat to the front tires (which I figured were worked a lot harder).
 
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That may be your answer. When I had drag radials they were slippery, just like any road tire, at 32 psi.

BTW, if your are not at sustained 70 mph or canyon-carving on corners you may be able to run pretty low pressure on the street. When just cruising city streets or side roads I noticed NO heat buildup on my sidewalls and it wasn't squirrely either. I just compared the heat to the front tires (which I figured were worked a lot harder).

I'm going to try lowering the PSI and see how it reacts... The 67 has minimal tire to wheel well lip clearance even with all the backspacing, so I'll have to see how it affects this.... Just one of the drawbacks to factory wheel tubs on these particular models....

Thanks,
 
CalTracs not sure about your homemade jobs, they recommend that your NOT supposed be to used with S/S springs, the S/S spring alone or a different style leaf would maybe be better you have the 2 traction aids just fighting against each other maybe... the rear section of the S/S springs are made to lift, possibly counteracting what your home made traction bars, are doing keep the S/S springs from working properly... run one or the other not both... You possibly go to the Calvert CalTracs site & read about how they work, if yours are a copy... do you have the front pivots on your bars too ??, really part of why the CalTracs work, my old car could bite most anywhere with CalTracs... I'll use them again on my current project too.... just curious, not sure any of what I said could/would help... not really knowing your rear suspension set-up...
 

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Your car has a bit of rake to it, doesn't it? Raising the front or lowering the rear might help more than you think. Find the corner weights and adjust height to see its effects...
 
1234625_10200717526196869_1143342154_n.jpg
Not too much rake.... 15" wheels front and back....
Budnicks,
My homemade Rip off (CalTrac) is setup just like purchased items... They pivot at the top, and have two points for the link bar. The link bar has Chromoly threaded ends "LH & RH" so you just loosen the jamb nut and twist the tube to increase or decrease pre-load.
I think springs act the same regardless of the number of springs as far as how the rear end torques / twists them. S/S or not, they want to twist the same direction... this is an act of the housing, not the spring.... I could be all wet on that last statement,,, but I don't think so...
I was having traction issues before I put the traction bars on too.... I think wind up has been eliminated as a result, because if you back them off so you have a gap between the piece that goes over the spring, and the spring itself,,,, you can hear them smack when you hit the gas... With them adjusted down to just off the spring, the wind up smack goes away under throttle...
If I had the Extra coin,,, I would just purchase a complete setup with mono's and rear sliders to free it all up.... I just keep thinking that I'm missing something else BIG TIME with it as is!!!

Thanks
 
They are fighting against eachother. Swap to a mono leaf or take the caltracs off. Also, try lowering the front end, when I lowered the front of the Belvedere there was about 2 inches of play (I could lift the front end 2 inches by myself before the actual car weight was being lifted). It throws more weight to the back wheels off the launch.

Don't know if I explained it well enough but I did it on my friends dart as well and it stopped spinning.

OR if you want to keep it simple. Just keep lowering psi for starters.
 
Car have anti-squat? Can you tune a/s w/ the bars you made? W/ Calverts it appears you would just add preload...
 
Car have anti-squat? Can you tune a/s w/ the bars you made? W/ Calverts it appears you would just add preload...

You can tune them like Calverts.... It does prevent axle wrap too.... As I stated above,,, you can hear them smack the top of the springs if they are adjusted an inch or so away and you hit the go pedal...... With them down to just off the spring, you don't hear the smack, because they engage right away and shove down on the top of the front spring segment..... Seems to me like they are doing what is supposed to be happening with this design.... They allow the rear to go up and down but eliminate axle wrap which can produce spinning when the axle snaps back from the wrapped position.... Seems to make sense to me anyhow...
I'll also note again that the wheels spun like hell BEFORE I added the bars.... These haven't caused the problem,,, and I "Believe" the theory is sound in that it does prevent axle wrap, which can ONLY lead to trouble when they spring back....
The car kind of feels like the front just starts to lift then ZING,,, the tires begin spinning...... Maybe I'm looking for something that can't be obtained, and I should keep the hard accelerations at the drag strip???!!!!
 
How about videoing a launch in a deserted parking lot?
 
67 B-body;910071947 The car kind of feels like the front just starts to lift then ZING said:
I think you answered your own question right there. You're trying to do something with tires that are designed for something else. They are designed to work on a launch pad on a prepped surface on a track and to work at a certain psi after doing a burn out for a certain length of time. You are running too much psi, not doing a burnout, and probably on asphalt too so they might even be spinning more than if you just had regular radials on there.

Does it hook good at the strip? What are your 60 foot times like? That would be the baseline to see if your suspension is working wouldn't?
 
I have never had traction on the street but I'm also running true street tires and the best way I learned to deal with it is to feather the throttle to control tire spin. This worked well in the 80's and still does but requires a lot of practice to not completely screw up the launch.

A while back I got to meet Brian Rock at Bakersfield and spent some time chatting with him. Great guy by the way and a lot of knowledge. You are all wondering who Brian Rock is and I had no idea either before I met him, but he has a 65 GTO that I watched pull the wheels and run a 10.06 with drag radials. Here is what he said about drag radials and it makes sense. Drag radials tend to bounce under hard acceleration. The force that plants the tire during acceleration needs to be controlled with good shocks so the tire doesn't bounce back like a basketball. The shocks are set to extend freely and damp the rebound thus keeping the tire on the ground. Another thing he did was lower the front end and remove or modify the upper travel limiters to allow the front suspension to lift more or just have more travel. I suppose the reasoning behind that is to get as much of the weight transfer on the back wheels during suspension travel and without lifting the front wheels. There are no traction aids to the rear suspension! Just heavy duty control arms (no leafs on the GTO). He is running a 200R4 and found that putting taller gears in the rear end as well as playing with different ratios in the tranny made a big difference. The taller rear end gears made the car less violent off the line perhaps by stuffing more of the power in to the converter (lack of a better term) and the result was a better launch. This car is a representation of many years of R&D and at this point it's probably one of the best set up cars around. Pontiac Schmontiac - but anyone who can drive a 4000 lb car to the track, unload the wife and kid, pull into the staging lanes and run damn near a ten flat has my undivided attention.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJEIY5OJ68g
 
Wow Meeps,,,, that is impressive!
67 Satty,, I have only one timed pass, and I was spinning off the line then too,,, but not like on the street.... 10.42 1/4 mile..... I don't have the slip in front of me "at work now", so the rest I can't provide at the moment.... Since then, I have moved the battery to the trunk, new 3 way shocks up front @ 90-10, Traction bars "my version", Lighter aluminum radiator, Modified the carb, 8" converter,,,, the list goes on!!!
 
View attachment 186846
Not too much rake.... 15" wheels front and back....
Budnicks,
My homemade Rip off (CalTrac) is setup just like purchased items... They pivot at the top, and have two points for the link bar. The link bar has Chromoly threaded ends "LH & RH" so you just loosen the jamb nut and twist the tube to increase or decrease pre-load.
I think springs act the same regardless of the number of springs as far as how the rear end torques / twists them. S/S or not, they want to twist the same direction... this is an act of the housing, not the spring.... I could be all wet on that last statement,,, but I don't think so...
I was having traction issues before I put the traction bars on too.... I think wind up has been eliminated as a result, because if you back them off so you have a gap between the piece that goes over the spring, and the spring itself,,,, you can hear them smack when you hit the gas... With them adjusted down to just off the spring, the wind up smack goes away under throttle...
If I had the Extra coin,,, I would just purchase a complete setup with mono's and rear sliders to free it all up.... I just keep thinking that I'm missing something else BIG TIME with it as is!!!

Thanks
IMO, that's a lot of rake. Scale the car at that height then lower the rear even with the front and see how much difference it makes. I think you'll be more than surprised at the difference.
 
Looks like I'll be on the hunt for some barn scales...... This is taking me back to the Dirt Track Late Model days!!!... LOL!!!! I thought I was done with weight jacks, and re-curving the springs!!
I might even get it out this evening when I get back from mowing the grass at our place by the river..... Depends on how long the Wife wants to stay out there.... If I do, I'll get a video of launching with a few different techniques..
 
You mentioned that the car acts like it starts to bite then blows em off. Does the front end come up a lot at first when you have the fronts set at 90/10? Had a car once that lifted the wheels up about 4" but it would come down just as fast as it when up and when it did that, it unloaded the rear tires and spin. It was a 10.60 car but it was track only back then. After chasing my butt for several weeks I threw on an old pair of 50/50 'soft' shocks on the front and bingo. They solved the problem....but my car didn't have near the rake angle yours has.
 
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