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RE: Are girdles needed on a 440 ?

uwss

uwss

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My engine builder says a girdle is not necessary. After reading that hot rod mag post, I see that added a girdle. Some say yes , some say no. Question is ? Is it really necessary.
 
I have a lot of friends that race with big block Mopars. Stud girdle is good insurance but not really necessary until you get to the 650+ horse power range. At the higher power ranges the main caps are prone to cracking without some form of added support. It is better to have one and not need it than need it and not have it. I am building a supercharged stroker big block and the girdle is one of the first things I got for it.
 
i prefer steel caps with the 3 center caps cross bolted and as light of pistons and rods as possible. stock caps will come apart at 550hp. i always considered the girdles more gadget than help. girdles were around in the early '60s but chrysler, and ford chose cross bolted center caps for their y-blocks.
 
racing and real hard street driving a girdle will strengthen the bottom end. almost make it bullet proof...for street and casual race...not needed
 
I agree that under 650 hp on a street car you dont need it. I dont use one as I run steel main caps with studs on my 63 which is a street/strip car but I only make about 600 hp and only race about twice a year and mine is holding up fine with just main studs. Ron
 
engine builder said with raps studs; not needed. He said he has done several with 800 hp with no issue. If I was making a 800-1000 hp then I shouldn't be using a stock block anyway and I should buy an aftermarket block for about 3 grand. So, thats why I learned today.
 
Helped a buddy a few years back build an Indy headed stock block 400 stroker (499) using aluminum caps. Went 10.0's on motor and 9:30 on a small shot. The car weigh 3500....
 
I use a girdle.... Mine won't fail do to cap walk!
 
well, I have a oil leak; appears to be the rear main seal. Haven't driven the car with the new motor since cancer surgery at the VA. Went out for a shake down run and noticed oil dripping from the bell housing. After pulling the oil pan, I find out the engine builder didn't install the girdle. Said it wasn't necessary. So, I have 2 questions: 1, changing the man rear seal, hard , easy while the motor is in ?; 2 question: can the girdle be added with the motor in ? I hate fixing other people screws up.

Before I went to the VA for surgery: i took the car back to the engine builder where it sat for 2 months while he fixed the oil leak. His BS mechanic said it was blowing oil back from the front of the oil pan. I said the car isn't moving and it is dripping oil. Then he put JB weld on the oil pan where they weld it and said that fixed the problem. Are you F'n kidding me ? JB weld. So, after recovering from 2 surgeries, I take it out and it is still leaking oil. I am so pissed. Not going to take it back; just going to fix it myself.

I would like to know if I can add the girdle without pulling the motor ?
 
I wouldn't think so unless you use main studs vs main bolts. Most of the stud girdles tie into and stabilize the main studs. If you already use studs, you might be able to simply add the girdle but they usually require shimming to get the clearances correct.
 
I was reading the install instructions on the Hughes Engine girdle install and they state you can install it from under the car. Anyone ever done this before ? Did you have to shim the motor mounts ? Has anyone had good experience or luck with the Hughes Engine girdle setup ?
 
The 512 stroker I have hanging on the engine stand in my garage has a girdle. There are considerations you have to make when installing one that many don't realize. All of the main bearing caps had to be machined and the bolts were of special lengths. My caps are billet aluminum and sit flush to the underside of the girdle.You may or may not have an issue with the windage tray fitting as per factory and the oil pickup will definitely have to be altered slightly if your somewhat unlucky. I definitely would not consider building any type of high horse power engine without one. Just keep in mind that a good one will drop your oil pan by 1/2 inch so take this into consideration for installing the engine afterwards. A 440 with a long stroke deffinitely deserves the extra strengthening that a girdle provides and when I come to think of it, installing even a cheap one will do no harm on any engine.
 
cdr said:
i think the girdle is a waist of money.
Click to expand...

Under most circumstances, for a street car running DOT tires, I agree with the above statement. ARP studs, correctly installed, are sufficient for a street/strip engine unless it is boosted or is continually being hit with nitrous. Keep the RPM to a sane level and you'll be fine. Once again, what is necessary for a RACE engine usually is overkill for a STREET engine. Just another educated opinion...
 
the girdle supports the caps front to back, cap walk, bounce is in a downward direction.

- - - Updated - - -

aftermarket block is the answer!
 
I thought any kind of movement of the caps was considered walk....?
 
I was hoping cdr would buy me an aftermarket block or at least a 572 hemi. I am just wishing. It's all about money. Some people can build whatever they want with no thought to money. But most of us; have to fund our projects week to week or month to month or year to year until we get it done.

Some of these so called builders throw 100k at a vehicle; who here can afford that ? I can't. If I win the lotto I can. But only if.

- - - Updated - - -

So, if I am understanding cdr correctly; don't bother with the girdle. When I get the money, build one with an aftermarket block ? Arp studs are strong enough for a 440 stroker out to 520 cu.in.; revs out to 6500 ? And of course, this is a street machine; stop light racing only.

My thoughts, if I do another engine; I would do a 572 hemi and forget about a 440 stroker.
 
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