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Sub Frame Connectors

Darius said:
This is pretty much what I did. I used XV (now defunct) connectors which welded to the floor all the way. I leveled it and hung the doors. Then tacked it real good, then raised the rotisserie off thr jacks and turned it so it was easier to weld.
Now the car is completely assembled and has been driven with no noticeable issues.
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Boy what I would have given to get it done that way, learning to weld, and laying under the car with molten rain falling on you . . . THAT's a learning experience !

And it would probably lend to nicer resulting welds too . . .
 
At the risk of testing all you professors patience. And yes I've read all the posts. Do you think it would be okay for me to weld the subs in to a fully weighted frame in its natural stance? Or does it have to be up on stands with the body level. Seems like that that defeats the purpose. I don't have the equipment many of you seem to have access to. Of course I guess I can always have them welded by a shop after everything is done and the car drivable. Would rather do it sooner rather than later.

Promise I won't keep dragging this out - just want to be clear and do the right thing.
 
I imagine that if Chrysler had installed those connectors on the cars when brand new, they would have gone on along with the rest of the rails and side sills, before the drivetrain or any other parts that go on after the painting is done.
 
Yes. Just make sure the tires are on the ground or better yet an alignment lift.
 
I had jack stands under the rear axle and 8X8 pieces of blocking under the front tires when I did mine (nothing fancy).
 
These things are meant to keep our cars straight,,, NOT hold and lock in twists or sags that might have developed over time...... When the car was manufactured, its shell was done WITHOUT any drivetrain, and it was STRAIGHT at that time... Not having an engine in the car is more likely to yield a good install IMO....
Either way,, the idea is for the car to NOT have sags and twists in it when installing,, whatever your method or procedures might be...
Good luck with yours,,, mine will be welded in shortly too!!!!
 
67 Mopar said:
A word from the folks at Hotchkis...

http://www.hotchkis.net/_uploaded_files/4011S.pdf
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Wow....that goes against what all the chassis builders that I know do. They don't just build complete cars but installed anything from just frame ties to complete roll cages. If the car is complete, they measure out all the places where the factory used for frame alignment and make sure there was no sag, twist or out of square. And just because the doors close well doesn't mean there's no sag. Now I do agree that the body should be assembled.....but once the body is complete, the engine install shouldn't change things.
 
Cranky said:
Wow....that goes against what all the chassis builders that I know do. They don't just build complete cars but installed anything from just frame ties to complete roll cages. If the car is complete, they measure out all the places where the factory used for frame alignment and make sure there was no sag, twist or out of square. And just because the doors close well doesn't mean there's no sag. Now I do agree that the body should be assembled.....but once the body is complete, the engine install shouldn't change things.
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Agreed!! I built tube chassis Late Model race cars... I promise you that at NO TIME did I load a frame before completing the build!!! The dang thing should be straight "just like when manufactured" when adding stiffening components... As a matter of fact,,, a car that has a tweaked chassis can cause unpredictable launches in drag racing, and constant changing handling on circle cars...
I for one WILL NOT be welding in frame connectors or roll cages with a body that is sagging or in its "relaxed state"..... The thing will be as straight as I can get it first!!! Then I'll provide the extra structure to keep it straight.
 
67 B-body said:
These things are meant to keep our cars straight,,, NOT hold and lock in twists or sags that might have developed over time...... When the car was manufactured, its shell was done WITHOUT any drivetrain, and it was STRAIGHT at that time... Not having an engine in the car is more likely to yield a good install IMO....
Either way,, the idea is for the car to NOT have sags and twists in it when installing,, whatever your method or procedures might be...
Good luck with yours,,, mine will be welded in shortly too!!!!
Click to expand...

Good points, and they all make perfect sense. I think we can all agree that's the way they would have installed them from the factory and I also think anybody in their right mind will do the metal work to make the car solid before adding connectors as well. I can say this, after all the surgery was done on mine I welded the connectors to the rear frame and left the fronts loose until it was all assembled. The connectors were even with the bottom of the crossmember before it was assembled and still even after fully weighted so in my case there was no difference.
 
747mopar said:
I can say this, after all the surgery was done on mine I welded the connectors to the rear frame and left the fronts loose until it was all assembled. The connectors were even with the bottom of the crossmember before it was assembled and still even after fully weighted so in my case there was no difference.
Click to expand...
And that's the way it should be if the body of the car still has it's integrity.....should be no difference. IF the body's integrity has been compromised due to rust, accident or whatever, the best way to fix it is on a frame machine and even tho this can be done with all the weight in it, I like to do it with the engine/trans removed and if I'm going to strengthen the chassis with added frame work like frame ties etc, I want the chassis to be empty of the heavy stuff.
 
Sorry but now I'm more confused than ever. Lots of opinions here.....

To simplify -No metal work being done on the car. The frame is as manufactured. Connectors were bolted in w/o motor. Is it okay to "weld" them in with the motor in the car and at it's natural stance weighted down with the motor (cause it ain't coming out again). Or do I have to lift the car in some way before welding. Everyone seems to agree welded is best so I'm past that. :argue:
 
Well, it seams it has been done successfully both ways so it's all up to you now. I simply followed the instructions of most subframe connector manufactures on mine which as I said didn't really make a difference as it didn't move anyways.
 
The problem is you are going to get different responses from different people. Technically the instructions for welding in sub frame connectors is to weld them in with the full weight of the car on the frame. This is the optimal and best way of doing it. Are their other ways of welding them in? yes. My advise would be to get the car on a frame dolly so you know the frame will be perfectly straight and square. If you don't have that then get the car up on jack stands. Level the car side to side and front to back, with the doors installed and closed. You can level the car with shims under the jack stand heads. Once it's level measure the frame diagonally to check for square. If everything is good, install the sub frame connectors.
 
Okay I'm going to run with that last option. Thx to everyone that responded. I figure anyone that can make pigs fly has it all going on. Lots of knowledgable opinions here. Appreciated!
 
A unitized body (most of our Mopars and for sure yours) isn't exactly a weak design....it's actually pretty stiff, and installing the engine and trans should NOT have any effect on the sag of the body....but socking 600 horse power to it is another story and that's what the frame ties are supposed to help with. That being said however I would do the welding with the vehicle's weight on it's suspension just for peace of mind.
 
Awww you're not so cranky after all. Thx for the input and support. Hope to get these welded in without a hitch.
 
I'd like to say I'm done, but keep coming back to this thread. A lot less thought went in to my install. Still a transformation in ride.
 
I thought I was asking a Relatively easy question to the professors. I can see now (and glad I asked) that it's not so simple. It seems to have stirred the natives quite a bit. Good stimulating conversation though. I just don't want my frame to twist when I stomp on all that hp and torque. Had a friend that had the same problem. Instead of going through this he backed his motor off al the hp and torque. I think that's a shame. I knew there were other options. Just wanted the good sound advice from those that have gone before.....
 
This is an awesome thread! And timely since I'm in the middle of building my car.

At the risk of piling on, I was also looking at the US Car Tool torque boxes. Have many of you added the torque boxes along with the SFC, or are they overkill on a street machine?
 
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