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Help me spend my money wisely...another engine build thread

GearAddict

GearAddict

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Ok, I have become paralyzed by the myriad of options on what to do with my 5K Bonus check... life was easier when all I had was $300 a month to spend :) I also have the $300 per month there after to spend.

I'm trying to figure out what to do about a motor for my 69 RR..

The car is currently a 4-speed with 4.56 Dana 60 (more on that later). Hemi leafs, otherwise stock suspension.

I fully intend to change the gearing out as 45 mph at 3000 RPMs is not fun (even if screaming off the line is)... This could be done with some of the money or I can just save up for a few months and do it.

Current motor is a stout 383, 509 cam, 516 heads, Edlebrock manifold, MSD distributor and 6A box... motor runs, has some good power but has some issues, timing, idle, fuel mixture, burns a little water and a little oil... this is all making me want to build something fresh that I know what's been done to it and would like something a little more streetable... meaning better idle characteristics. I intend to drive the car, cruise night, round town, car shows...a couple passes for fun at the strip, but not a dedicated drag car by any means. I figure 500 up to a max of 1000 miles per year

I hope that helps, just trying to give an idea of use. I'm looking for opinions to help me decide, I know in the end I'll end up doing whatever makes most sense to me, but appreciate the ideas, especially from all of you that have been through this before.

A couple of items that could be re-used or that I have new....

Obviously 383 block, 516 heads, ect... I don't know currently what the bore is at, I'm guessing at least .030 over
B Block MSD ready to Run dist
MSD 6A (old unit, still runs good)
Several carbs that can be re-built and used (Holley 600, Holley 750 DP, Edlebrock 750)
B block Performer RPM manifold
New Holley mechanical fuel pump
Fresh set of 906 heads, rebuilt, nothing special (.500" lift max)

I should say that I have rebuilt 2 motor myself in the past.. stock builds and I did an ok job, but I'm older, slight wiser and more patient now, so I'm open to assembly myself, but if the money was avail, I'm happy to have a shop do it.

Options that I have been considering

A. Rebuild the 383 (assuming it can be bored further), with new pistons and 906 heads with target compression in the 9-9.5 range and a cam with better idle characteristics, leaning more towards low end torque than top end power. Guessing $2,500-3K total on the rebuild? Put some remaining money into re-gearing the rear end down to 3.23 or 3.55 ($900?) Leaves me with $1-1.5K to spend on other stuff

B. Same as above, add in Alumn heads, and roller cam (may need to sell 906's to help fund).

C. Can purchase fully machined 440 block .055 over for $1K, purchase 500" stroker kit from 440 source for $2.3K.. New cam, timing chain, gaskets ect.. $700, manifold, dist, oil pan, balancer, bolts, water pump $1K (mix of new and used).. Additional machine work to for clearancing the block for the stroker 300? Use existing 906 heads... goal would be to build mild stroker, with strong bottom end that can be upgraded over time (Heads, manifold, carbs, fuel system)

Is this a pipe dream? even for a mildly built and babied motor is the 500 going to be unruly? Will the 4 speed handle it?

D. usually can find cast crank 440 locally, complete for $500 (motor home) or occasionally a pre 70 forged motor for $900ish... buy it, new cam, timing chain, pistons, rebuild kit, ect... $1200, 906's maybe to save money, $2,500 Machine shop... $4.2K - $4.6K

I'm good with all 4 options... would love to hear others.. I guess I'm thinking that I'll always be wanting that 440 if I just rebuild the 383 and I guess I could say the same thing about the 500.

Alright, lay your knowledge on me.
 
If you're looking to do it, stoke a 400 block. Just like listed above but do yourself.
 
Option C.

You will love the additional torque and the 4 speed should be just fine. Just ask anyone who has ever built one. The only substitution for cubic inches ............ Is MORE cubic inches. You'll be glad you did.

- - - Updated - - -

I would even consider purchasing a set of aluminum heads while your at it.
 
ok I'm all ears,,,,,,,errrr, eyes! was thinking almost the exact thing but I have a 440. one thing I hear about is line boring the crank journals, I've heard guys say you should do it and I've heard guys say no way, thoughts?????
 
You don't line bore the crank journals, you line bore the caps/journal mounts of the block. You'd turn the journals if wear, damage, pitting occurs. As far as the line bore, it's generally a pretty good idea to make sure you're square on your bottom end, and a line bore will take care of that. That being said, a lot of folks have it done if they are using a different crank than the original, installing a crank that required hefty turning on the journals, or upgrading/replacing the crank with a new one. IMO, for what it cost's, it's a pretty good investment/insurance for your rotating assembly, especially if you're upping your HP/TQ. I'm no engine guru, but it's what i've dealt with/heard/seen over the years.


Scott, how much power do you want to make? That's the big question. One thing to think about, is the higher you get in HP/TQ, obviously the more pricey the engine work/parts get....but another thing to think about is the supplementary parts that are required along side the rise in HP/TQ. Transmission, driveline, rear, fuel, exhaust, chassis, braking, ignition ect..ect... can all add up real quick to deal with that extra power.
 
You could stroke the 383 to 496 and have a bitchin' engine!!
 
Well, The 69a100 Relief Fund is getting low, been low for awhile. How about a couple Grand donation?
 
Banzaiii67 said:
Buy this or have someone build you one like it in your hometown. All your parts off your 383 will work with a 400 block, not everything will work on a rb block.

http://www.musclemotorsracing.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=86&Itemid=123
Click to expand...

Thanks! That's a nice price... I do have a friend with a 400 block in good shape (needs to be machined) for $50.. I suppose I could add 2 more options.

E) 451 from Muscle Motors on sale for $5600 (no idea what shipping will cost me).. a little outside of my budget, but for a fully built dyno'd motor, maybe I can scrape from somewhere...dunno

F) build my own 451... $50 block, used 440 crank, rods $300? and new pistons $600...ect.. or stroker kit $2,300.. Machine work $2,000? use the rest of the stuff from my 383

- - - Updated - - -

Xp29h said:
If you're looking to do it, stoke a 400 block. Just like listed above but do yourself.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a popular option.

- - - Updated - - -

71airgrabberRR said:
Option C.

You will love the additional torque and the 4 speed should be just fine. Just ask anyone who has ever built one. The only substitution for cubic inches ............ Is MORE cubic inches. You'll be glad you did.

- - - Updated - - -

I would even consider purchasing a set of aluminum heads while your at it.
Click to expand...

I believe you understand my current sickness.. a severe anemic deficiency with the belief that cubic inches is the solution.

1 for option C (Aluminum heads would have to come later).
 
There is a GREAT article in Hemmings Muscle Machines this month.
He has a 68 Roadrunner:
440
Bored
Stroked
565CI
Marsh Heads
Pump gas
.307 CAM Big Cubes so not a radical cam profile.
650 HP
650 Torque
(A real sleeper)
Looks stock except for the Edelbrock manifold but it's all painted BLUE and looks great.
Check out his build in this months Hemming Muscle Machines.
 
Propwash said:
Scott, how much power do you want to make? That's the big question. One thing to think about, is the higher you get in HP/TQ, obviously the more pricey the engine work/parts get....but another thing to think about is the supplementary parts that are required along side the rise in HP/TQ. Transmission, driveline, rear, fuel, exhaust, chassis, braking, ignition ect..ect... can all add up real quick to deal with that extra power.
Click to expand...

Thanks Will, the answer... I don't know! I'm thinking between 400 -500HP/400-500TQ. I realize that there is a break point somewhere between 400 and 500 that starts to get expensive, both on the motor and on the surrounding parts. As you are well aware I have a monthly budget, I'm nearing the end of spending my monthly budget on interior, exterior, wiring, ect... so I will have 3600 a year to continue to work on improving those deficient areas caused by more HP/TQ. Am I nuts? you would know better than most... thoughts?

- - - Updated - - -

5.7 hemi said:
You could stroke the 383 to 496 and have a bitchin' engine!!
Click to expand...

Can that be done safely? I've never stroked a motor... I'm hoping to end up with a solid bottom end
 
Yes I do understand your sickness!!!! I think most of us here are affected by it in some form or another. You can add the aluminum heads later. That's not a problem. You have the Dana rear but if your going to go with the Stroker I would definitely budget for a set of 3.54 rear gears.

This is a Challenger I built for a friend several years ago. It has a Stroker 440 engine that was built by Herb McCandles. It is now 500 cubic inches and has Indy heads. It is backed by a 6 speed manual and a Dana with 3.54 gears.

The car doesn't really need 1st gear. It has tons of torque and is a blast to drive.

- - - Updated - - -

image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg

- - - Updated - - -

If it were me I'd go big.

- - - Updated - - -

This engine has a mild cam and makes right at 638 HP if memory serves me correctly.

- - - Updated - - -

It has power steering and AC too.
 
GearAddict said:
Thanks Will, the answer... I don't know! I'm thinking between 400 -500HP/400-500TQ. I realize that there is a break point somewhere between 400 and 500 that starts to get expensive, both on the motor and on the surrounding parts. As you are well aware I have a monthly budget, I'm nearing the end of spending my monthly budget on interior, exterior, wiring, ect... so I will have 3600 a year to continue to work on improving those deficient areas caused by more HP/TQ. Am I nuts? you would know better than most... thoughts?
Click to expand...

No, no, no Scott........I don't think you're nuts. I think you're amazingly creative and ingenuitive to be able to pull off the the build you have already on your Plymouth, with the monthly budget you allotted. I have no idea how you got it done, but you did. As far as a line drawn in the sand with HP/TQ, you're exactly right. It's very easy to cross that tipping point and end up with a runaway train of parts and money. I did that with my last street/strip build and after doing so, I don't think i'll be getting myself in that boat again.

Anyways, you have a pretty realistic and achievable goal without having to win the lottery, gain a family inheritance or rob a bank. You already have the cubic inches, and well.......there's no replacement for displacement. Your 383 came with 330HP from Ma Mopar. Propelling that up another 75-100HP won't cost you 5K if done right. Stroker's are awesome, the torque is neck snapping, and just saying "stroker" will have the fella's that preach "500HP because I added chrome valve covers" avoiding you at all costs on the street. That being said, strokers are very expensive. From the rotating assembly, to the machine work to all the add on's. This is just my opinion, but if I was in your shoes & had your budget I'd just focus on what you already have. As an example........ as seen here and a few other sites on the internet...a mildly bored 383, ported closed chambered aluminum heads, zero decked for quench, comp ratio in the 10-10.5:1, solid lifter flat or roller, good dual plane (like eddy RPM or Indy) intake port matched (or decent Single plane), dialed in performance carb like a QF, Holley ect..ect.., and ignition/exhaust to match have no issues living in that 400-500HP/TQ range.
 
super-bee_ski said:
There is a GREAT article in Hemmings Muscle Machines this month.
He has a 68 Roadrunner:
440
Bored
Stroked
565CI
Marsh Heads
Pump gas
.307 CAM Big Cubes so not a radical cam profile.
650 HP
650 Torque
(A real sleeper)
Looks stock except for the Edelbrock manifold but it's all painted BLUE and looks great.
Check out his build in this months Hemming Muscle Machines.
Click to expand...

Surprise you didn't mention this thread, lots of good input from super-bee and HT413 among others on 451's :headbang:

http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?82619-My-BUDGET-451-build-finally
 
Personally would stick with the 383. Most expensive part is pistons. All other expenses are the same regardless what you build. That and it is not hard at all to get into the HP range you are looking for. So you loose a little bottom end torque you would have with a longer stroke, but you retain a much lighter rotating assemble and a engine that will live a lot longer at higher RPM. Just my though on the matter.
 
i did a 496 15 yrs ago, and it was a torque beast, frankly i didnt like it. im doing just a stock stroke 440, but im going modern everything, CNC ported Stealth heads, and Hughes Roller Hydraulic cam, im going to let the technology make the power instead of the CI. and see how i like it.
 
Don't know if you would be interested but I have a 69 dated 383 h.p. motor with 906 heads I'd let go of it and the box of parts for $500 ,there's a crank and water pump housing I belive some brackets and pulleys, oil pan, pistons and rods are there no intake valve covers or carb I can get a parts list if interested good block and heads crank looks good too .p.m. if interested
I'm on the other cost in fl. About 3 hrs away good luck ether way
 
GearAddict said:
Ok, I have become paralyzed by the myriad of options on what to do with my 5K Bonus check... life was easier when all I had was $300 a month to spend :) I also have the $300 per month there after to spend.

I'm trying to figure out what to do about a motor for my 69 RR..

The car is currently a 4-speed with 4.56 Dana 60 (more on that later). Hemi leafs, otherwise stock suspension.

I fully intend to change the gearing out as 45 mph at 3000 RPMs is not fun (even if screaming off the line is)... This could be done with some of the money or I can just save up for a few months and do it.

Current motor is a stout 383, 509 cam, 516 heads, Edlebrock manifold, MSD distributor and 6A box... motor runs, has some good power but has some issues, timing, idle, fuel mixture, burns a little water and a little oil... this is all making me want to build something fresh that I know what's been done to it and would like something a little more streetable... meaning better idle characteristics. I intend to drive the car, cruise night, round town, car shows...a couple passes for fun at the strip, but not a dedicated drag car by any means. I figure 500 up to a max of 1000 miles per year

I hope that helps, just trying to give an idea of use. I'm looking for opinions to help me decide, I know in the end I'll end up doing whatever makes most sense to me, but appreciate the ideas, especially from all of you that have been through this before.

A couple of items that could be re-used or that I have new....

Obviously 383 block, 516 heads, ect... I don't know currently what the bore is at, I'm guessing at least .030 over
B Block MSD ready to Run dist
MSD 6A (old unit, still runs good)
Several carbs that can be re-built and used (Holley 600, Holley 750 DP, Edlebrock 750)
B block Performer RPM manifold
New Holley mechanical fuel pump
Fresh set of 906 heads, rebuilt, nothing special (.500" lift max)

I should say that I have rebuilt 2 motor myself in the past.. stock builds and I did an ok job, but I'm older, slight wiser and more patient now, so I'm open to assembly myself, but if the money was avail, I'm happy to have a shop do it.

Options that I have been considering

A. Rebuild the 383 (assuming it can be bored further), with new pistons and 906 heads with target compression in the 9-9.5 range and a cam with better idle characteristics, leaning more towards low end torque than top end power. Guessing $2,500-3K total on the rebuild? Put some remaining money into re-gearing the rear end down to 3.23 or 3.55 ($900?) Leaves me with $1-1.5K to spend on other stuff

B. Same as above, add in Alumn heads, and roller cam (may need to sell 906's to help fund).

C. Can purchase fully machined 440 block .055 over for $1K, purchase 500" stroker kit from 440 source for $2.3K.. New cam, timing chain, gaskets ect.. $700, manifold, dist, oil pan, balancer, bolts, water pump $1K (mix of new and used).. Additional machine work to for clearancing the block for the stroker 300? Use existing 906 heads... goal would be to build mild stroker, with strong bottom end that can be upgraded over time (Heads, manifold, carbs, fuel system)

Is this a pipe dream? even for a mildly built and babied motor is the 500 going to be unruly? Will the 4 speed handle it?

D. usually can find cast crank 440 locally, complete for $500 (motor home) or occasionally a pre 70 forged motor for $900ish... buy it, new cam, timing chain, pistons, rebuild kit, ect... $1200, 906's maybe to save money, $2,500 Machine shop... $4.2K - $4.6K

I'm good with all 4 options... would love to hear others.. I guess I'm thinking that I'll always be wanting that 440 if I just rebuild the 383 and I guess I could say the same thing about the 500.

Alright, lay your knowledge on me.
Click to expand...

It shouldn't cost you any where near $900 to change to a 3.55 or 3.23 if you already have the Dana 60!
 
I would start with 3.54:1 gears.

If you can get a good 400 block for $50, get it and build a 4.25" stroker (512") with aluminum heads. I'm waiting to hear more info and pricing on the new trickflow heads?
 
Find a core 440 they range from 2-500 bucks around us. Put some flat top pistons in it some decent rod bolts, balance it well and run a quality balancer on it also deck it so its not down in the hole, put a decent aluminum head on eddie e streets, stealths, garlits or even hughes prepped 915s run a decent spring on it a small roller cam and be done with it. Sell the rest of the parts you have for the b motor. This can be done easily for 5,000 bucks.

The last two 440s I have built I have used flat tappet cams and gone through all the precautions with zinc additives, break in, run in springs Ive run the gamout and had 50/50 luck with flat cams. Once was a scummit racing cam and the other was a comp 275.
 
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