sagging right front on '67 Belvedere

Celt69 · Jun 18, 2015

Noticed today while chasing a small water leak that the passenger front was sitting a little low compared to the driver's side. I made a snap decision to crank up the torsion bar (clockwise) and seems to have levelled things out but hard to tell in my small garage (go for a drive tomorrow). I measured as per service manual and the passenger side indeed now sits higher than the driver yet measuring from bottom of fender to floor through the centre of the wheel says the passenger front still sits approx. 1/2 inch lower than the driver side. Never had a torsion bar car before so I understand I may have impacted alignment (not too worried as tires need to be replaced - 14" for 15" to do a front disc conversion this winter).

Thoughts on why I may still have some sag here, worn out torsion bar? Thanks in advance for my daily dose of advise! Seems I drive the car an hour and then spend a day repairing all the gremlins that reveal themselves...still looking for the water drip

miller · Jun 18, 2015

Personally, never had a torsion bar 'wear out'. Have seen some well mistreated. Besides some other part wearing out, or rusted out, no reason the bars could be adjusted right.

I'd have to look in the book, to refresh my brain, but kinda remember adjusting the bars, in the service manual says a measurement off the lower control arm, to the floor. Just go easy on the adjuster screws, since they can break and such. Put some WD40 on 'em, then adjust away. Car needs to be on the ground, when you adjust them!

eric383 · Jun 18, 2015

I have always adjusted my torsion bars with the front end off the ground so I am not stressing the adjuster bolt with the weight of the front end. Then I put the car back on the ground and bounce the front end a few times and remeasure. This is the way I was taught to do it but like any other procedure I'm sure there are other methods. Like miller said lube the threads of the adjuster bolt because you don't want to stress it. I have seen the rear torsion bar mount tear out of a rust belt car so check that out. Good luck.

Cranky · Jun 18, 2015

Adjust as the manual says using chassis measurements and not body sheet metal. I also screw the adjusters with the weight off of them then roll the car a couple of feet back and forth to let the suspension settle back into place. If you have turn plates like an alignment shop, then you don't have to roll it. Also, make sure the adjusters are clean and lubed well before turning them....

Celt69 · Jun 18, 2015

Cranky said:
Adjust as the manual says using chassis measurements and not body sheet metal. I also screw the adjusters with the weight off of them then roll the car a couple of feet back and forth to let the suspension settle back into place. If you have turn plates like an alignment shop, then you don't have to roll it. Also, make sure the adjusters are clean and lubed well before turning them....

I have been following the service manual but still seem to have a lower right side front than rear (tires same size, inflated the same etc.) so need to determine what is going on here...

mopar 3 B · Jun 18, 2015

You got all unnecessary weight out of the car. Tools, parts, junk and cleaned the trunk out leaving just the spair tire, and jack. Does the back sit level? Also do not lean on the car while taking measurements.

miller · Jun 19, 2015

Might spend some time carefully looking over your front suspension parts. Could be looking at a worn, or bent part.

Is the car straight? No bent frame, or the like. The suspensions on these cars are pretty straight forward, even simple, just a little dif from most others.

If you get the bars adjusted right, should be sitting level, from side to side. Just a little hint...when I build a front end, I've always used door wax on the adjuster threads. Lubes, and protects the adjuster bolts. Always works for me.

Celt69 · Jun 19, 2015

mopar 3 B said:
You got all unnecessary weight out of the car. Tools, parts, junk and cleaned the trunk out leaving just the spair tire, and jack. Does the back sit level? Also do not lean on the car while taking measurements.

Only thing in the trunk is the battery, I wouldn't think that would contribute to the lower front of the car on the same side?

- - - Updated - - -

miller said:
Might spend some time carefully looking over your front suspension parts. Could be looking at a worn, or bent part.

Is the car straight? No bent frame, or the like. The suspensions on these cars are pretty straight forward, even simple, just a little dif from most others.

If you get the bars adjusted right, should be sitting level, from side to side. Just a little hint...when I build a front end, I've always used door wax on the adjuster threads. Lubes, and protects the adjuster bolts. Always works for me.

Car appears straight, I have crawled around underneath before picking it up and quite a bit since. Frame shows no damage, even had it on a friend's hoist (old drag racer) and he couldn't believe how nice it is underneath. Drives straight with no wandering or pulls (I may have FIXED that playing with the one torsion bar). For a 48 yr. old car it drives very nice even with the manual steering and drums all around.

cr8crshr · Jun 19, 2015

I'm having just the opposite issue. The left side is sitting lower front to rear. That's the drivers side for those that haven't figured out which side is which. Any way...I have the MOPAR Super Stock springs on my '66 Ply Sat which have an extra leaf for the left side because of torque when the car is either raced or jumped on. I replaced all new suspension rubber and parts so I know I don't have any wear as of yet. When I push down on the right side of the car...Passenger Side...then it levels itself out. So my question is this...Can I just adjust the right side to get it even and not listing to the left or do I need to work both sides at the same time to accomplish this. The car will be going back to the aligners as I am upgrading to 15" Magnum Road wheels anyway so I can also have the shop help get this straightened out...cr8crshr/Tuck

miller · Jun 20, 2015

cr8crshr...without seeing things, gonna assume (there's that dangerous word again!) your rear SS springs are mounted up correctly. Got 'em on my 64 Ply, bearly any height difference side to side on the rear. Simply mounted mine up on the stock locations, after hunting down the right parts.

Adjusting your torsion bars, as long as all front end parts are good to go, should level out the car side to side. If you get into the service manual, it tells the right way to adjust the bars. Guess you already know there's right/left, and should go in the proper sides. Yeah, from the driver's seat, is right and left sides.

If an alignment shop has ANY idea what their doing, torsion bars settings is the first thing checked.

mopar 3 B · Jun 20, 2015

you say the tire are the same size and air pressure is ok but have you actually measured the circumference of the tires to make sure they are the same?

Celt69 · Jun 22, 2015

mopar 3 B said:
you say the tire are the same size and air pressure is ok but have you actually measured the circumference of the tires to make sure they are the same?

Damn Mopar 3 B I have not! I am heading into the garage right now, you may be have something there, the rubber is old.

By "damn" of course I meant you had brought up something I had never even considered, thank you!

Cranky · Jun 22, 2015

cr8crshr said:
I'm having just the opposite issue. The left side is sitting lower front to rear. That's the drivers side for those that haven't figured out which side is which. Any way...I have the MOPAR Super Stock springs on my '66 Ply Sat which have an extra leaf for the left side because of torque when the car is either raced or jumped on. I replaced all new suspension rubber and parts so I know I don't have any wear as of yet. When I push down on the right side of the car...Passenger Side...then it levels itself out. So my question is this...Can I just adjust the right side to get it even and not listing to the left or do I need to work both sides at the same time to accomplish this. The car will be going back to the aligners as I am upgrading to 15" Magnum Road wheels anyway so I can also have the shop help get this straightened out...cr8crshr/Tuck

With SS springs or any other modified leaf springs, the extra leaf (or two) should go on the right side of the car and not the left. The torque of the engine tries to pick up the left front wheel and squat the right rear PLUS the rear end torques over counter clockwise (looking from the rear) which tries to pick up the right rear tire. This is the main reason why non limited slip rears spin the right rear tire and the biased springs are supposed to help with that issue.....so long as the biased spring is on the right.

Celt69 said:
Damn Mopar 3 B I have not! I am heading into the garage right now, you may be have something there, the rubber is old.

By "damn" of course I meant you had brought up something I had never even considered, thank you!

Years ago I bought a set of 275-60-15's and one was worn down at least 50% over the other and it made a slight difference in the way the car sat and it was barely noticeable but what was very noticeable was the way the car 'steered' left or right when I hammered it or let off the throttle. The SureGrip was good enough to make the car steer left (the big tire was on the right side) under acceleration and want to steer to the right on decel. At first, I thought it was an alignment issue....

Celt69 · Jun 22, 2015

Cranky said:
With SS springs or any other modified leaf springs, the extra leaf (or two) should go on the right side of the car and not the left. The torque of the engine tries to pick up the left front wheel and squat the right rear PLUS the rear end torques over counter clockwise (looking from the rear) which tries to pick up the right rear tire. This is the main reason why non limited slip rears spin the right rear tire and the biased springs are supposed to help with that issue.....so long as the biased spring is on the right.

Years ago I bought a set of 275-60-15's and one was worn down at least 50% over the other and it made a slight difference in the way the car sat and it was barely noticeable but what was very noticeable was the way the car 'steered' left or right when I hammered it or let off the throttle. The SureGrip was good enough to make the car steer left (the big tire was on the right side) under acceleration and want to steer to the right on decel. At first, I thought it was an alignment issue....

Well, same size tire, same leaf spring count on rear, 1/2" difference in measurement from floor to centre of wheel opening in fender as measured through the centre of the wheel. Still scratching my head on this one...

mopar 3 B · Jun 22, 2015

Measure the distance around not across. Air to same pressures with vehicle on stands measure distance around tire and divide by 3.14 will provide correct distance across. Another thing to check maybe the surface your car is sitting on.

Celt69 · Jun 22, 2015

mopar 3 B said:
Measure the distance around not across. Air to same pressures with vehicle on stands measure distance around tire and divide by 3.14 will provide correct distance across. Another thing to check maybe the surface your car is sitting on.

I'll throw it up on stands tomorrow and measure circumference, sitting on level garage floor.

miller · Jun 23, 2015

Celt69 said:
Well, same size tire, same leaf spring count on rear, 1/2" difference in measurement from floor to centre of wheel opening in fender as measured through the centre of the wheel. Still scratching my head on this one...

Not that it's gonna fix your measuring, but I'd do a retake on your SS springs. Same leaf count could mean you have two of the same side springs, instead of one right, one left. Any tags, or numbers on your springs?
Just at the rear, are the spring shackles (rear of the springs) the same length? Also look at the spring mounts (front of the springs), to make sure both sides are bolted to the frame the same. It would be easy to mount one of those mounts 'up-side-down', and throw things off.
There's all kinds of possiblities of what's going on. But, forget doing any kind of measuring, from floor to a body part...either frame, or suspension/axle...is the only way to be accurate.

sagging right front on '67 Belvedere

Celt69

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