RE: Are girdles needed on a 440 ?

cdr · Sep 27, 2015

uwss said:
I was hoping cdr would buy me an aftermarket block or at least a 572 hemi. I am just wishing. It's all about money. Some people can build whatever they want with no thought to money. But most of us; have to fund our projects week to week or month to month or year to year until we get it done.

Some of these so called builders throw 100k at a vehicle; who here can afford that ? I can't. If I win the lotto I can. But only if.

- - - Updated - - -

So, if I am understanding cdr correctly; don't bother with the girdle. When I get the money, build one with an aftermarket block ? Arp studs are strong enough for a 440 stroker out to 520 cu.in.; revs out to 6500 ? And of course, this is a street machine; stop light racing only.

My thoughts, if I do another engine; I would do a 572 hemi and forget about a 440 stroker.

LOL, I built my 512 with a 400 block that i bought from CRANKY, i couldn't afford an aftermarket block for my own build

if i had the money i would go aluminum block .

I am on social security LMBO, the only car i have to drive is my 512 68 charger, if i wanted to keep the charger i had to sell my dodge Dakota .

Cranky · Sep 27, 2015

uwss said:
I was hoping cdr would buy me an aftermarket block or at least a 572 hemi. I am just wishing. It's all about money. Some people can build whatever they want with no thought to money. But most of us; have to fund our projects week to week or month to month or year to year until we get it done.

Some of these so called builders throw 100k at a vehicle; who here can afford that ? I can't. If I win the lotto I can. But only if.

- - - Updated - - -

So, if I am understanding cdr correctly; don't bother with the girdle. When I get the money, build one with an aftermarket block ? Arp studs are strong enough for a 440 stroker out to 520 cu.in.; revs out to 6500 ? And of course, this is a street machine; stop light racing only.

My thoughts, if I do another engine; I would do a 572 hemi and forget about a 440 stroker.

Stop light racing? Back in the mid 80's, my 68 road runner was running mid 10's and it was docile enough to drive it on the street and it never over heated using a 440 block and crank, light weight pistons and good rods. The 906 heads were max ported but out of the box Eddys flow just as well. The car was mini tubed and ran 12.5W slicks. If you throw some money into an OD trans, you can gear it low enough to make it move hard and yet get on the freeway. I'm looking at selling my Jerico 4 speed and going with a 6 speed trans for my Belvedere as I would really like to run at least 4.30 gears or even steeper and the 6 speed would allow it to knock down some decent cruise mph. Having a stroker is cool and all and you can turn them lower rpm for the same grunt but they come with a higher price. Btw, my old car crossed the stripe at 7300 and it was still pulling. Ran it out the back door one day just to see if it would flatten out and saw 7600 pull up just as fast as it pulled 7300 from 7k. Decided I didn't need to know any more than that lol

uwss · Sep 28, 2015

Cranky, back in the 60's; we used to race stop light to stop light for money. This was in Texas. My first build was a 55 chevy 2 door post with a 409 and a hurst 4 speed. Painted candy apple red with mohair interior. I would come home and pull the cheater slicks out of the trunk and mount then on the car. Raced Friday, Saturday night. Sunday was the day I put the slicks back in the trunk. Later, I moved to a small town where we raced on a country road. 1/4 mile for money. The old Chryslers with push button shifting were hard to beat. Had too much fun back in the day.

So, Cranky are you saying a girdle is not needed. I do have arp studs. Eagle crank, Mahle pistons and rods. I bought the Eagle kit for the 440 stroker from Eagle. I have to take the oil pan off the fix the rear main seal leaking. So, If I have to pull the pan off, why not install a girdle ?

uwss · Sep 28, 2015

I think I have my answer from Russ at Indy Racing Heads; I am told my motor can only make 600 hp due to the aluminum Edelbrock RPM heads which he said are nothing more than a stock head made out of aluminum. In addition, Russ stated that those Eddelbrock heads belong on a small block and not a big block Mopar. So, he said a girdle is a waste of money; buy a world block or an aluminum block and put some nice heads on it.

440 is good to 600 hp only.

coloradodave · Sep 28, 2015

As has been said, all the girdles that I've installed required the main caps to be machined flat; of course those were small block Chevys that were revved to 9600 RPM back in the M/P and Gas class days.

zyzzyx · Sep 28, 2015

The reason to go with ARP main studs is to eliminate "Cap Walk" on an engine with some work done to it. "Insurance". The difference between the torque values on the stock bolts and the ARP studs are enough security to keep the caps frommoving at more RPM. A stroker crank with heavier rods AND heavier pistons put more force on everything, up, and down. IMHO, if you're not racing and revving your big block past 6800 RPM, you do not need a girdle.

HT413 · Sep 29, 2015

Speaking from a materials engineering standpoint, I've always wondered if a girdle did anything at all. Think of it this way - say you had the block upside down on a stand, and placed the girdle on WITHOUT the main caps. If you put a couple of main cap bolts through it and started tightening, how much torque would you think it could take before the girdle stated to deflect? Probably not very much. To me, this is the amount of support a girdle can provide a cap in a running engine, which is 'not much'.

coloradodave · Sep 29, 2015

HT413 said:
Speaking from a materials engineering standpoint, I've always wondered if a girdle did anything at all. Think of it this way - say you had the block upside down on a stand, and placed the girdle on WITHOUT the main caps. If you put a couple of main cap bolts through it and started tightening, how much torque would you think it could take before the girdle stated to deflect? Probably not very much. To me, this is the amount of support a girdle can provide a cap in a running engine, which is 'not much'.

That is the purpose of machining the main caps flat. The girdle web contacts the whole surface of the cap and is secured with the same studs (longer) that secure the caps. There is no deflection.

Cranky · Sep 29, 2015

For what it's worth, I ran across this......

http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/2mainbearingstudgirdles04232007.php

coloradodave · Sep 29, 2015

Thanks, Cranky. So there is an option for those that don't want to machine the tops of the main caps, or install a girdle with the engine in the car, but note that Hughes also makes a kit with more clamping force if you do machine the caps. If their claim is true (how would we know) about the over 900 horse engine using their girdle, that's pretty impressive; BUT, that for sure is not a STREET motor...

uwss · Sep 29, 2015

well, I just bought the hughes engine girdle and see if it will make a difference. I will not be pulling the motor. So, I will be on my back, don't expect it to be easy.

coloradodave · Sep 29, 2015

uwss said:
well, I just bought the hughes engine girdle and see if it will make a difference. I will not be pulling the motor. So, I will be on my back, don't expect it to be easy.

" Some people can build whatever they want with no thought to money. But most of us; have to fund our projects week to week or month to month or year to year until we get it done." (Your quote).

So, after asking the question, you had 2 people say 'Yes' and 12 people say 'No', including the shop that built your engine. I'm curious as to why you spent the $375.00+ and bought the girdle? Not trying to be a jerk, just a student of 'thought process'. I don't know how you will ever know if the girdle made a difference. I don't envy you lying on your back installing it or the windage tray and pan. Been there, done that...lol

Cranky · Sep 29, 2015

uwss said:
Cranky, back in the 60's; we used to race stop light to stop light for money. This was in Texas. My first build was a 55 chevy 2 door post with a 409 and a hurst 4 speed. Painted candy apple red with mohair interior. I would come home and pull the cheater slicks out of the trunk and mount then on the car. Raced Friday, Saturday night. Sunday was the day I put the slicks back in the trunk. Later, I moved to a small town where we raced on a country road. 1/4 mile for money. The old Chryslers with push button shifting were hard to beat. Had too much fun back in the day.

So, Cranky are you saying a girdle is not needed. I do have arp studs. Eagle crank, Mahle pistons and rods. I bought the Eagle kit for the 440 stroker from Eagle. I have to take the oil pan off the fix the rear main seal leaking. So, If I have to pull the pan off, why not install a girdle ?

uwss said:
I think I have my answer from Russ at Indy Racing Heads; I am told my motor can only make 600 hp due to the aluminum Edelbrock RPM heads which he said are nothing more than a stock head made out of aluminum. In addition, Russ stated that those Eddelbrock heads belong on a small block and not a big block Mopar. So, he said a girdle is a waste of money; buy a world block or an aluminum block and put some nice heads on it.

440 is good to 600 hp only.

Had a 440 in a 68 roadrunner in the mid 80's that would run mid 10's but was more consistent going just a bit slower at 10.68 and it was deadly consistent doing that number. The engine had more than 300 passes on it before I tore it down and it showed cap walk. The last race of the year it broke a valve spring. I knew they were tired and the plan was to tear it apart after that race but I got lucky and the inner spring and damper held the valve in place and the engine only displayed the bits of the main spring doing damage. It looked like the bottom end was shot with a 410 tho.....

RE: Are girdles needed on a 440 ?

cdr

Well-Known Member

Cranky

Banned Henchman #27

uwss

Well-Known Member

uwss

Well-Known Member

coloradodave

FBBO Gold Member

zyzzyx

FBBO Gold Member

HT413

Semi Pro Bowler

coloradodave

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Cranky

Banned Henchman #27

coloradodave

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uwss

Well-Known Member

coloradodave

FBBO Gold Member

Cranky

Banned Henchman #27

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