Picked up new motor this weekend may need smaller CAM.....

66Satellite47 · Nov 22, 2015

malex said:
That sure seems like a big cam / lots of duration for a 10.5 cr. It would be interesting to know the cranking pressure of it. Wonder how well it performed.

Who's combo are you referencing? 2quick's? B-1's will produce a much high effective CR than the 10.5 TRW rating would indicate. More like 12.0 with the small B-1 chambers. If you were referring to the setup I have described above, it's a true 10.5 w/ 86 cc chambers. It is a big old cam that I had sitting around. Cranking pressure is 140 psi. My cam is not ideal, but I was looking for more top end at the strip than I was getting with my Comp XS 274S which has much shorter duration. The short duration cam did have more low RPM torque.

2quick · Nov 23, 2015

malex said:
that sure seems like a big cam / lots of duration for a 10.5 cr. It would be interesting to know the cranking pressure of it. Wonder how well it performed.

160psi

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66Satellite47 said:
Yes I have tubs with the springs moved in. My Dana is about 48 3/4" - 49" flange to flange. My street wheels are 15 x 10 w/5" backspace, 325/50 x 15 BFG Drag Radials. My slicks are 11.5 x 28.5 on 15 x 10 w/4.5" backspace. The slicks have good clearance to the springs and quarter. The amount you narrow the axle housing depends on what backspace wheel you want to run. Be sure to check the backspace availability on the wheels you want to run before narrowing the axle. Not all wheels have a good backspace selection. I intended to run a 11.5W x 29.5 slick (13 3/4" face x 30.5" actual), but there was not enough clearance at the front of the wheel well (less than 1/4") so I went with the 11.5 x 28.5. My 325/50 x 15 BFG's are 10 3/4" face x 28" tall and they have plenty of clearance all around.

Perfect, You covered just about everything we could ask for. Going to save this for future reference.

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HT413 said:
If you do plan to minitub, keep in mind that a 4 link allows you to easily adjust the axle position front to back, so you can maximize the room. It's a big job that requires some mods, but just sayin.

I'm looking for a 4 link that works with MINI tubs? All the ones I've seen (That are bolt in) uses the stock front leaf spring mounts for lower ARM location. This kinda defeats the purpose of the mini tub.

HT413 · Nov 23, 2015

2quick said:
I'm looking for a 4 link that works with MINI tubs? All the ones I've seen (That are bolt in) uses the stock front leaf spring mounts for lower ARM location. This kinda defeats the purpose of the mini tub.

Yeah, i agree, that would defeat the purpose. Mine are inside the frame rails but required cutting and welding. I'm not too sure if there is anything else available that is bolt in, as you need a track bar and upper mounts for the coil overs, not to mention brackets for the forward portion of the 4 link.

BTW, who says you need a mini-tub / 4-link anyway? Plenty of guys running 10 second street cars with leaf springs and original wheel houses. I bought mine done up with 4-link, mini-tub, full box frame connectors (that come through the floor and into the passenger compartment) simply because I love the look of the tubs and wide tires. My car will never be faster than 11.5 (if that), and I don't really plan to race much anyway, so it isn't really necessary for me. Besides, your car is PAINTED, so cutting it up for something like this, well, seems a bit of a waste.

2quick · Nov 23, 2015

HT413 said:
Yeah, i agree, that would defeat the purpose. Mine are inside the frame rails but required cutting and welding. I'm not too sure if there is anything else available that is bolt in, as you need a track bar and upper mounts for the coil overs, not to mention brackets for the forward portion of the 4 link.

BTW, who says you need a mini-tub / 4-link anyway? Plenty of guys running 10 second street cars with leaf springs and original wheel houses. I bought mine done up with 4-link, mini-tub, full box frame connectors (that come through the floor and into the passenger compartment) simply because I love the look of the tubs and wide tires. My car will never be faster than 11.5 (if that), and I don't really plan to race much anyway, so it isn't really necessary for me. Besides, your car is PAINTED, so cutting it up for something like this, well, seems a bit of a waste.

Yea I wasn't planning on doing it but the more I think about it the more it makes sense to do it know while on the rotisserie. If i don't do it know i'll never do it. also Am thinking 6 point at same time.
Wheel houses are still in primer, I was going to shoot wheel houses, Quarter extensions and back with color matched Raptor Liner so melted tire rubber wouldn't eat paint and clear coat. This happened on my HEMI Ram Pick-up. Repairing the paint isn't the end of the world.

dvw · Nov 23, 2015

To be honest what scares me is the bottom end. This thing will make way more power than the TRW, LY rods and a stock block will handle. If you twist up the rpm or have a hint of detonation it won't last long. Heavy rotator with old rods. Trouble is the top end would like 5000-7000 and the bottom limit should be 6000, maybe 6500 tops. Still the entire purchase was a bargain. Leave it alone and limit the RPM. More than enough power on the street.
Doug

onephat66 · Nov 24, 2015

dvw said:
To be honest what scares me is the bottom end. This thing will make way more power than the TRW, LY rods and a stock block will handle. If you twist up the rpm or have a hint of detonation it won't last long. Heavy rotator with old rods. Trouble is the top end would like 5000-7000 and the bottom limit should be 6000, maybe 6500 tops. Still the entire purchase was a bargain. Leave it alone and limit the RPM. More than enough power on the street.
Doug

The rods will handle the 7000 RPMs with light pistons, but the TRW's may be on the heavy side to make it happen. Stock block is more than adequate. My stock block, LY rod equipped 440 has no problem turning 7000 with my JE SRP pistons.

2quick · Nov 24, 2015

New cam spec's out from 3000 - 6000 so shift around 6300 maybe?
was thinking of getting back with Hughes and discussing moving it up a bit, Maybe 3500 -6500 with a 3500 converter and 3.90's or 4.10's

Dur @ .050 - .255 in. / 259 ex.
Lift .600 in. / .615 ex.
110 LSA

onephat66 · Nov 24, 2015

2quick said:
New cam spec's out from 3000 - 6000 so shift around 6300 maybe?
was thinking of getting back with Hughes and discussing moving it up a bit, Maybe 3500 -6500 with a 3500 converter and 3.90's or 4.10's

Dur @ .050 - .255 in. / 259 ex.
Lift .600 in. / .615 ex.
110 LSA

I'm really surprised with the specs on that cam it is only spec'd up to 6000. Those specs do look good with the rest of the combo though.

Phil McGrath · Nov 24, 2015

2quick said:
I'm looking for a 4 link that works with MINI tubs? All the ones I've seen (That are bolt in) uses the stock front leaf spring mounts for lower ARM location. This kinda defeats the purpose of the mini tub.

If it were Me, I would look at the Martz 4 link there down bars locate on the inside of the frames rails.. or as a alternant the Control Freak 4 link system can be done with the frame rail spring relocation kit.. I like the Martz system better everything is inside the frame rails, but that's just me..

2quick said:
New cam spec's out from 3000 - 6000 so shift around 6300 maybe?
was thinking of getting back with Hughes and discussing moving it up a bit, Maybe 3500 -6500 with a 3500 converter and 3.90's or 4.10's

Dur @ .050 - .255 in. / 259 ex.
Lift .600 in. / .615 ex.
110 LSA

Wow, I'm pretty good. That's not too far off of what I suggested.

Phil McGrath · Nov 24, 2015

2quick said:
I'm looking for a 4 link that works with MINI tubs? All the ones I've seen (That are bolt in) uses the stock front leaf spring mounts for lower ARM location. This kinda defeats the purpose of the mini tub.

If it were Me, I would look at the Martz 4 link there down bars locate on the inside of the frames rails.. or as a alternant the Control Freak 4 link system can be done with the frame rail spring relocation kit.. I like the Martz system better everything is inside the frame rails, but that's just me..

2quick said:
New cam spec's out from 3000 - 6000 so shift around 6300 maybe?
was thinking of getting back with Hughes and discussing moving it up a bit, Maybe 3500 -6500 with a 3500 converter and 3.90's or 4.10's

Dur @ .050 - .255 in. / 259 ex.
Lift .600 in. / .615 ex.
110 LSA

Wow, I'm pretty good. That's not too far off of what I suggested.

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Pa-pow, a little power outage and that's how you get the double tap..

reeltime · Nov 24, 2015

I run a 572 on the street/strip. Do not sell that motor or any part of it. Try it as it is you may be very happy with it. After you see what you have you can change to suit. Those heads and intake are Indy's best sellers is why everyone on here want you to sell . Get it ? Call Frank Lupo at Dynamic converters,they make a street strip converter that is a 4200 stall ( don't panic ) it works like a stock converter until you stand on it then it lets your motor get up to it's power range and she goes like it should. Run synthetic trans. Oil and a good cooler and you will be fine. I get years out of the trannies and I have 5500 rpm stall.(I like Royal Purple trans fluid best )It sounds like you really got a deal there and I would bet you will be thrilled with it !

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The 440-1 Indy heads take a different header. If you had your headers before you got this motor they likely will not fit. My headers are step 2" to 2 1/8" .Check it out.

2quick · Nov 25, 2015

reeltime said:
I run a 572 on the street/strip. Do not sell that motor or any part of it. Try it as it is you may be very happy with it. After you see what you have you can change to suit. Those heads and intake are Indy's best sellers is why everyone on here want you to sell . Get it ? Call Frank Lupo at Dynamic converters,they make a street strip converter that is a 4200 stall ( don't panic ) it works like a stock converter until you stand on it then it lets your motor get up to it's power range and she goes like it should. Run synthetic trans. Oil and a good cooler and you will be fine. I get years out of the trannies and I have 5500 rpm stall.(I like Royal Purple trans fluid best )It sounds like you really got a deal there and I would bet you will be thrilled with it !

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The 440-1 Indy heads take a different header. If you had your headers before you got this motor they likely will not fit. My headers are step 2" to 2 1/8" .Check it out.

That bring up a good point. The guy said that the header were on the motor in a 67 coronet, but I don't think TTI sells a header for the -1 heads that aren't stepped?

malex · Nov 25, 2015

66Satellite47 said:
Who's combo are you referencing? 2quick's? B-1's will produce a much high effective CR than the 10.5 TRW rating would indicate. More like 12.0 with the small B-1 chambers. If you were referring to the setup I have described above, it's a true 10.5 w/ 86 cc chambers. It is a big old cam that I had sitting around. Cranking pressure is 140 psi. My cam is not ideal, but I was looking for more top end at the strip than I was getting with my Comp XS 274S which has much shorter duration. The short duration cam did have more low RPM torque.

Hi 66Satellite. My reference was related to 2Quick. Your advise is good information; thank you. His new engine was noted to be 10.5 CR and the cam was 278/281 @ .050. I assumed his 10.5 was calculated but I see upon review that he has flat tops so it would be more as you mentioned.

The reason for my comment was because of my 526 which has 10.5 CR. I run Victor Max Wedge heads, a Indy cross ram intake with 750's and my current cam is a Comp Solid Roller, 254 /260 @ .050. Cranking pressure of 155lbs @ 108 centreline and 160lbs when installed at 106. I inquired about a larger cam to get more upper RPM pull out of my 526. The recommendation back to me was to first increase my CR and then select a grind. I was advised that my cranking pressure should be considerably more than 155/160.

When I read 2Quick's combo with 10.5 CR and 280ish duration I wondered how well it performed. All of the solid roller cams in the 280 duration @ .050 all want in the 12.1CR range. Maybe my 526 just needs a bigger cam despite 10.5CR but that's wishful thinking.

dvw · Nov 27, 2015

onephat66 said:
The rods will handle the 7000 RPMs with light pistons, but the TRW's may be on the heavy side to make it happen. Stock block is more than adequate. My stock block, LY rod equipped 440 has no problem turning 7000 with my JE SRP pistons.

The TRW is not a light piston. It's also a stock block. That is on the edge for reliability given the top end it has on it. I have only ever broken two engines. #1 LY rod in a Max Wedge. #2 Stock block unported Indy -1. Ran 10 teens@3450 lbs until it pulled the main webs out.
Doug

68 HEMI GTS · Nov 28, 2015

onephat66 said:
The rods will handle the 7000 RPMs with light pistons, but the TRW's may be on the heavy side to make it happen. Stock block is more than adequate. My stock block, LY rod equipped 440 has no problem turning 7000 with my JE SRP pistons.

ive seen a lot of broken LY rods. its one thing if you know they came out of grampa's imperial that never seen over 4000rpm before you use them . but, you have a set of 45 year old rods in there that you have absolultly no history on. they very well could be at the end of their life cycle. it may live, it may not.. The 440 In my RR has LY rods (I've run it 6800), same deal I don't know the history on the rods. i'm getting a little nervous, hence I'm building a different short block for it. I keep the ly rod short block for a mild application.

66Satellite47 · Nov 28, 2015

dvw said:
The TRW is not a light piston. It's also a stock block. That is on the edge for reliability given the top end it has on it. I have only ever broken two engines. #1 LY rod in a Max Wedge. #2 Stock block unported Indy -1. Ran 10 teens@3450 lbs until it pulled the main webs out.
Doug

I agree the TRW's are heavy & the LY's are not great by today's standards, but back in the '70's & 80's I ran a stock block 440, TRW 11.5 piston, LY rod motor up to 7000 RPM for many, many hundreds of runs. Never broke it. I wouldn't do that today though, 6500 or less & no problem. I was running 10.70's @ 123 w/3550# in those days. The rods were shot peened & used good SPS rod bolts.

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malex said:
Hi 66Satellite. My reference was related to 2Quick. Your advise is good information; thank you. His new engine was noted to be 10.5 CR and the cam was 278/281 @ .050. I assumed his 10.5 was calculated but I see upon review that he has flat tops so it would be more as you mentioned.

The reason for my comment was because of my 526 which has 10.5 CR. I run Victor Max Wedge heads, a Indy cross ram intake with 750's and my current cam is a Comp Solid Roller, 254 /260 @ .050. Cranking pressure of 155lbs @ 108 centreline and 160lbs when installed at 106. I inquired about a larger cam to get more upper RPM pull out of my 526. The recommendation back to me was to first increase my CR and then select a grind. I was advised that my cranking pressure should be considerably more than 155/160.

When I read 2Quick's combo with 10.5 CR and 280ish duration I wondered how well it performed. All of the solid roller cams in the 280 duration @ .050 all want in the 12.1CR range. Maybe my 526 just needs a bigger cam despite 10.5CR but that's wishful thinking.

Malex, I agree that big roller does seem like it would want lots more compression. Back in the day when I ran rollers in the 280 - 284 range I used 12.0 to 12.5 with iron heads. I also understand that the bigger inch motors need a fairly big cam even with the lower compression. I plan on upgrading my current cam to something more modern, but still in the 260 - 265 @.050 range .600+ lift.

onephat66 · Nov 29, 2015

dvw said:
The TRW is not a light piston. It's also a stock block. That is on the edge for reliability given the top end it has on it. I have only ever broken two engines. #1 LY rod in a Max Wedge. #2 Stock block unported Indy -1. Ran 10 teens@3450 lbs until it pulled the main webs out.
Doug

That's what I said, TRW pistons not that light!!!!! Stock block doesn't matter, I've seen hundreds hold with that RPM.

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68 HEMI GTS said:
ive seen a lot of broken LY rods. its one thing if you know they came out of grampa's imperial that never seen over 4000rpm before you use them . but, you have a set of 45 year old rods in there that you have absolultly no history on. they very well could be at the end of their life cycle. it may live, it may not.. The 440 In my RR has LY rods (I've run it 6800), same deal I don't know the history on the rods. i'm getting a little nervous, hence I'm building a different short block for it. I keep the ly rod short block for a mild application.

That still doesn't mean an LY rod can't handle the abuse. All I saying, and most people aren't paying attention to what I actually stated, is that factory blocks and LY rods can be used for more than mild builds, I've seen and done it successfully. Now I know they become the weak link when you start hitting full race motors that only see track time. I'd never use a 6 pack rod because they're way too heavy for any use, many would argue with me, but many argue the LY rod use. They both have their use and properly reconditioned LY rods will handle a lot of horsepower and higher than stock RPMs.

Tempest 455 · Nov 30, 2015

Ditto on some of the comments. I have run combinations that radical (or more) on the street on a limited basis. Keep the revs below 6,500 with the TRW and you will be fine. Try it 1st before you go changing things.

2quick · Dec 7, 2015

Tempest 455 said:
Ditto on some of the comments. I have run combinations that radical (or more) on the street on a limited basis. Keep the revs below 6,500 with the TRW and you will be fine. Try it 1st before you go changing things.

You really think I should try the cam thats in there? What converter?
Duration - .278 in. / .281 ex. @ .50
Lift - .681 in. / .660 ex.
Lobe Separation – 108

Mike Gaines · Jan 12, 2016

Carb Fitment under hood

The picture above shows my new carb (with adapter) on my Victor Single Plane (for your reference). The other picture shows the 2 1/2 "hood scoop spacer" I had to fab to get clearance for the carb (with adapter) and air cleaner.
I think a 440-2 (with carb) would fit under a "stock" hemi scoop...but may not leave room for an air cleaner unless you bought a top plate and a bottom plate and then found like a 1" tall air cleaner element.
If you had to use a carb adapter (that is about 2" tall) to adapt a 4150 carb to the 4500 base 440-2 manifold that might not fit.
You mention in a post that you might be able to fab a 4150 to 4500 adapter since no one makes one..... but you could probably buy a 4500 to 4150 adapter and do some work to "reverse" the mounting....but mounting a 4150 carb (with an adapter) onto the HUGE 4500 carb opening on the INDY 440-2 intake might just make the air/fuel velocity just "fall on its face"....don't know how this work for sure but it could be a problem.
I just bought a brand new offering from Holley (thru Summit). It is their all new #80688 Sportsman 4500 Dominator and it only cost $719.00. I mounted it on my Edelbrock Victor 440 Single Plane using a Transdapt 4500 to 4150 adapter. I set the transfer slots to .020", turned the 4 corner idle screws out 1.5 turns, set the float levels and set the fuel pressure to 7.5lbs then started it up. It fired up IMMEDIATELY and sat there and idled perfectly at 1300RPM WITH NO OTHER ADJUSTMENTS after firing it up. I let it warm up, put the trans in 1st gear and crammed the pedal to the floor and it lit up the rear tires with absolutly ZERO drama, no hick-ups, bogging or spitting. Can't wait to get it to the drag strip.
Maybe just keep your 440-2 Intake, buy the #80688 Dominator (your big heads and big cam should handle the 1050 carb just fine) and buy a 5" tall scoop and you could be home free on that end of things.I am sure you will have time to try things out....VN Fiberglass make a 5" Hemi Scoop that would solve all your problems...it is $160 plus frt from Chicago area.
PS: Canyon has a Harwood "bubble type" scoop for sale for $150 (it is a $300 scoop) that you could have mounted on your hood....it would also solve your problem...and that scoop is a mean looking scoop...check it out on for sale forum.

Picked up new motor this weekend may need smaller CAM.....

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