Motor decisions and dilemmas

Tzclark · Mar 23, 2016

I am back at square one, at least in my brain. I had intended to build a stroked 512 with a couple turbos. For mental reasons I really wanted over 500ci. After having my block sit at the engine shop for about two months, I got a call that they sonic checked it and it's no good. I had planned to girdle and run billet main caps.

Now comes the decision, do I find another stock block or find an aftermarket wedge. Which bring me to one of the biggest dilemmas of the build to date. If going aftermarket, why wouldn't I go hemi vs wedge. Blocks, rotating assemblies are all the same price point, extra costs seem to be heads and vavletrain. I completely understand that dollar for dollar I'd be ahead with the wedge, however that's kind of like hooking up with Megan Fox (10 outta 10) or hooking up with a 10 that know one knows. Either way you're getting some high fives from your buddies, just not as many. Lol. No matter what way I go the turbos will be involved, as well as fuel injection. Clearly if I go aftermarket block I do want to increase my rwhp goals.

Also does anyone else make a Siamese block other then Indy?

snakeoil24 · Mar 23, 2016

world products

Tzclark · Mar 23, 2016

I thought they only made aluminum blocks.

khryslerkid · Mar 23, 2016

I'd go with Megan Fox...

usaroadrunner · Mar 24, 2016

Yeah baby, Megan fox..

Tzclark · Mar 24, 2016

Called Indy yesterday to inquire about a hemi block and the guy was about as pleasant as wiping your *** with 80 grit. Would really like to send my money anywhere but there.

Sweet5ltr · Mar 24, 2016

Tzclark, I encourage you to join theturboforums.com prior to starting your build. The reality is, the RB wedge isn't the greatest design for dyno queen horsepower. The blocks are good for maybe, 900HP (at the crank) if you have absolutely everything right and a great deal of luck. 700HP with a N/A RB is pushing its limits. You don't need a couple of turbos, a single turbo will make nearly identical power with similar spooling ability (nearly instant with 400+ cubes). If it were me, I would go Hemi. The blocks are good to well north of 1,000HP.

Turbo's aren't created equal, when someone says 70-75MM it's 99% of the time in a T4 housing. I run a T6 75MM/1.10 AR for near instant spool on the street, it's good to well over 'block breaking' territory (which doesn't require much boost when you make 550 N/A) before it flat lines. Borg Warner S480 or S500 would be my choice for max power on a budget, with a lot of cubes, 1.58-1.60 AR. Even the S480/1.58 combination should be good for 900rwhp (nearly 1,200 crank HP) if you keep the cubes' reasonable. You don't need 500 cubic inches for a turbo build, in all honesty, a stock block 400 low-deck could make 800+rwhp for an 1/8th of the cost. Completely rewind your mindset when building F/I vs N/A.. It will make your head spin trying to cope with the differences.. Trust me.

jakepup · Mar 24, 2016

i was in the same boat a year ago, i wanted a 440/500" motor with a blower, i looked high and low for an aftermarket Siamese or world block to work with and had absolutely zero luck. i found an aftermarket hemi block and the guy wanted $4800 for just the block.. here was my take on it right or wrong
- if your going forced induction a hemi does add the cool factor but is not nessicary by any means.
- hemi cost a $hit ton more to build, for instance "rocker arms for a 440 are $900 and $3000 for a hemi"
-heads are triple the $ and you don't need "that good" of heads with forced induction
after all my reaserch i found that aftermarket iron 440 blocks should be available in the next year or 2 "they are building hemi's to start with then will start on 440's" you can buy aluminum aftermarket block for $6000 if ya want, but why?

what i ended up doing was finding a good 440 block and girdling it and kept the power "boost" down from what it could make and when the iron 440 blocks become available in a few years i will pull it out and swap some parts and have a stout engine i can crank up a bit. mine is making 850 at the crank and is holding up really well at this point but i'm sure it wont forever.

like stated above if i was you i would go the 400 block route and you will have yourself one hell of an engine! i have a roots superchager so low end torque and big cubes was a good route for me but with a pair of turbos and a 400 block you will have a monster also and be a lot on the safter side than me.

that's just my opinion, i would like a megan fox too... but for half the cost ill settle with a Jessica alba lol

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and im prolly waaayyy off when i say half the cost, a 400 block w twins will get ya 1000hp for probably 1/3rd of what a hemi would take ya, its all where you want to spend the $, you could add ALOT of other cool features to the car with the extra 15-20k you save on the engine!

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and ps,, FK INDY!!!!!!!!! worthless pieces of garbage as far *** i'm concerned, i will jump off the golden gate bridge before i ever dial there phone # or use on of there products ever again

Jeremiah · Mar 24, 2016

jakepup said:
i was in the same boat a year ago, i wanted a 440/500" motor with a blower, i looked high and low for an aftermarket Siamese or world block to work with and had absolutely zero luck. i found an aftermarket hemi block and the guy wanted $4800 for just the block.. here was my take on it right or wrong
- if your going forced induction a hemi does add the cool factor but is not nessicary by any means.
- hemi cost a $hit ton more to build, for instance "rocker arms for a 440 are $900 and $3000 for a hemi"
-heads are triple the $ and you don't need "that good" of heads with forced induction
after all my reaserch i found that aftermarket iron 440 blocks should be available in the next year or 2 "they are building hemi's to start with then will start on 440's" you can buy aluminum aftermarket block for $6000 if ya want, but why?

what i ended up doing was finding a good 440 block and girdling it and kept the power "boost" down from what it could make and when the iron 440 blocks become available in a few years i will pull it out and swap some parts and have a stout engine i can crank up a bit. mine is making 850 at the crank and is holding up really well at this point but i'm sure it wont forever.

like stated above if i was you i would go the 400 block route and you will have yourself one hell of an engine! i have a roots superchager so low end torque and big cubes was a good route for me but with a pair of turbos and a 400 block you will have a monster also and be a lot on the safter side than me.

that's just my opinion, i would like a megan fox too... but for half the cost ill settle with a Jessica alba lol

-

- - - Updated - - -

and im prolly waaayyy off when i say half the cost, a 400 block w twins will get ya 1000hp for probably 1/3rd of what a hemi would take ya, its all where you want to spend the $, you could add ALOT of other cool features to the car with the extra 15-20k you save on the engine!

- - - Updated - - -

and ps,, FK INDY!!!!!!!!! worthless pieces of garbage as far *** i'm concerned, i will jump off the golden gate bridge before i ever dial there phone # or use on of there products ever again

...unless you need a MW port, low deck intake manifold or MW port tunnel ram.

dvw · Mar 25, 2016

A 400 with twins would make an easy 1000. I'd use Trick/flows. Heck we make 800-825 with a stock 360 block/crank w/Eddys,.550" cam, stock exhaust manifolds at 18psi with a single 75mm. I'm sure there's more left. Just not sure how much is left in the stock cast crank. Turbo stuff is much more forgiving than N/A. Just keep it out of detonation, start conservative on the tune. To be honnest a new Gen 3 Hemi with a stock iron block, 2009 and up factory 5.7 heads, and a stock 6.1 crank will get you there. Just add rods, pistons and a cam, stock lifters and rockers.
Doug

Bone · Mar 28, 2016

i just got an aluminum world block, wedge. took a year to get. (was the same for hemi blocks). if I had know what I know now I would gone with kieth black block.

Sweet5ltr · Mar 28, 2016

dvw said:
A 400 with twins would make an easy 1000. I'd use Trick/flows. Heck we make 800-825 with a stock 360 block/crank w/Eddys,.550" cam, stock exhaust manifolds at 18psi with a single 75mm. I'm sure there's more left. Just not sure how much is left in the stock cast crank. Turbo stuff is much more forgiving than N/A. Just keep it out of detonation, start conservative on the tune. To be honnest a new Gen 3 Hemi with a stock iron block, 2009 and up factory 5.7 heads, and a stock 6.1 crank will get you there. Just add rods, pistons and a cam, stock lifters and rockers.
Doug

DVW got me started into turbocharging. Mopars and forced induction are like Voodoo, we are so far behind the power curve. With my 2.93 gears I can cruise the highway @ 80 MPH/2,700 RPM and get 12.5-14 MPG (AFR 15.5-16:1). Honestly, 15-16 MPG would be possible with a manual as my converter is non-lockup and pretty loose. Try doing that with a stroked RB/GEN II HEMI with anything near 800HP, it's just not going to happen.

Motor decisions and dilemmas

Tzclark

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snakeoil24

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Tzclark

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khryslerkid

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usaroadrunner

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Tzclark

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Sweet5ltr

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jakepup

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Jeremiah

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dvw

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Bone

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Sweet5ltr

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