1964 Rusty Bucket transformation
- Thread starter Crumley
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Crumley
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Glad to have shown some folks something that is useful.
I did manage to work on the 64 today. The patch work continues on the LH upper cowl. It seems to be coming along rather nicely. Boy there is a lot of welding in my future. The LH front fender was installed to make sure the holes in the upper cowl panel would work. Everything lined up like it should. Hopefully it will all still line up after welding...lol. For the picture hounds out there:
The windshield to upper cowl flange was cut off the Sherman replacement and is currently clamped into place. This is as far as I got today.
The holes on the top of the cowl will get filled. This is going to be a challenge due to the metal being quite thin.
I did manage to work on the 64 today. The patch work continues on the LH upper cowl. It seems to be coming along rather nicely. Boy there is a lot of welding in my future. The LH front fender was installed to make sure the holes in the upper cowl panel would work. Everything lined up like it should. Hopefully it will all still line up after welding...lol. For the picture hounds out there:
The windshield to upper cowl flange was cut off the Sherman replacement and is currently clamped into place. This is as far as I got today.
The holes on the top of the cowl will get filled. This is going to be a challenge due to the metal being quite thin.
Glenwood
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nice work Crumley. I was thinking of doing the same thing with the Sherman part...
Ken You continue to do extremely good work. When I took the cowl off I did not think there would be that many soft spots under the paint. I could not see the underside though. I enjoy your pictures and will continue to follow your posts. Jay
Crumley
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Glenwood, thank you for the complement.
If you haven’t already completed fabrication on the upper cowl. Use as much of the Sherman upper cowl piece as you can. If I had to do it again, I would cut the windshield wiper hole out of the OEM piece and weld it into the Sherman piece. Then make the Sherman piece fit the lower cowl. A lot less welding.
It was a pain in the rear end welding to the old thinner (due to rusting) factory piece. Even though the original piece was clean and prepped before welding. There was not enough metal to step onto while welding. A hole would blow thru the old metal. So I ended up with some booger welds. Both sides of the piece ended up getting welded.
I sanded thru the metal while trying to smooth everything out. Which means more welding. Sometimes I think, maybe I should have Tig welded the piece, but I don’t know if I could have gotten the old metal clean enough without getting porosity in the weld.
Jay, thank you for the complement.
Even with the rust issues, the cowl you sold me gave me something to work with. Older cars, due to lack of rust proofing on the underside of a panel, will rust from the inside out. The 67-72 Chevrolet and GMC truck are notorious for rusting from the inside out. I have personally been down that road.
For the picture hounds out there:
The areas circled in yellow, are the areas that have shrunk due to welding. It is like looking across a wavy ocean. I have tried hammer on dolly, to stretch these areas, but it doesn't want to cooperate. Does anyone (body men) out there following this thread have any suggestions?
The hole at the leading edge started as a little pin hole. I stuck an awl thru it to check thickness, I continued sticking the awl thru and ended up with the above slot. This hole is currently welded and re sanded.
If you haven’t already completed fabrication on the upper cowl. Use as much of the Sherman upper cowl piece as you can. If I had to do it again, I would cut the windshield wiper hole out of the OEM piece and weld it into the Sherman piece. Then make the Sherman piece fit the lower cowl. A lot less welding.
It was a pain in the rear end welding to the old thinner (due to rusting) factory piece. Even though the original piece was clean and prepped before welding. There was not enough metal to step onto while welding. A hole would blow thru the old metal. So I ended up with some booger welds. Both sides of the piece ended up getting welded.
I sanded thru the metal while trying to smooth everything out. Which means more welding. Sometimes I think, maybe I should have Tig welded the piece, but I don’t know if I could have gotten the old metal clean enough without getting porosity in the weld.
Jay, thank you for the complement.
Even with the rust issues, the cowl you sold me gave me something to work with. Older cars, due to lack of rust proofing on the underside of a panel, will rust from the inside out. The 67-72 Chevrolet and GMC truck are notorious for rusting from the inside out. I have personally been down that road.
For the picture hounds out there:
The areas circled in yellow, are the areas that have shrunk due to welding. It is like looking across a wavy ocean. I have tried hammer on dolly, to stretch these areas, but it doesn't want to cooperate. Does anyone (body men) out there following this thread have any suggestions?
The hole at the leading edge started as a little pin hole. I stuck an awl thru it to check thickness, I continued sticking the awl thru and ended up with the above slot. This hole is currently welded and re sanded.
Glenwood
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it's a tough go with this area crumley! I'm tackling the right side now and not really looking forward to the left. I still have this fantasy to be back driving it this summer! 
Keep up the good work...
I thought I saw somewhere that heat applied in different spots can alter the shrinking effect.
Keep up the good work...
I thought I saw somewhere that heat applied in different spots can alter the shrinking effect.
Crumley
Well-Known Member
Thanks glenwood and malex. I just keep chipping away at this big old stone…trying to make it smaller..lol.
glenwood, if I knew where to put the heat to stop the shrinkage I would sure do it. The waves (shrunk areas) can be seen in the pictures from the last post. When welding large thin panels, the same issue will occur. Just on a larger scale. It takes a real metal craftsman, of which I am not, to get the waves out without using body filler.
I did manage to get out to the shop this afternoon and continue attacking the rust issues in the fresh air box. The pitted metal has been cut out. I have begun the process of fabricating a replacement piece.
Pictures:
glenwood, if I knew where to put the heat to stop the shrinkage I would sure do it. The waves (shrunk areas) can be seen in the pictures from the last post. When welding large thin panels, the same issue will occur. Just on a larger scale. It takes a real metal craftsman, of which I am not, to get the waves out without using body filler.
I did manage to get out to the shop this afternoon and continue attacking the rust issues in the fresh air box. The pitted metal has been cut out. I have begun the process of fabricating a replacement piece.
Pictures:
miller
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Because of the narrow areas you have marked, could be real iffy. No, not any kind of bodyman.
But, something I did on a Charger trunk lid...maybe. That trunk lid looked like someone jumped up and down on it, had areas that were bent down.
My fix was heating the center of the gentle dents, 'til just starting do go red. Then, dropped a towel soaked in cold water on it. The cold water quickly cooled the hot area, basicly 'shrinking' that area, tightening the metal. Wasn't perfect, but sure helped alot.
Crumley
Well-Known Member
Hello there gents, well tonight is suppose to be hang out with the wife and have adult beverages night....lol. The metal shrinkage that occurred on the top cowl piece has been eating at me. So here is there another quickie update. I had to go out to the shop to try and repair the shrinkage. The following pictures is where I currently am with the upper cowl panel.
Pictures:
I cannot take credit following...It comes from Randy Ferguson's web site, I was viewing his repair of a crunched up 40 Willys coupe. It had been wrecked while drag racing. He stated that to help see the ripples (high and low spots) on the crunched up top of the coupe. He cleaned the wadded up metal to a nice shinny finish, ripples and all. He then took a wide sharpie pen and washed down the entire area with the wide sharpie pen.
That is what I did in the above picture. The dark areas on the cowl piece are the low areas shown using the sharpie marks. The scuffed area's is where a large flat round bastard file was run over the panel to find the high spots. Don't use a powered tool it will remove to much of the sharpie marks. Also this panel is very thin and we want to save as much metal as possible. Now we can see exactly where the high and low areas are on the panel. The dark areas need to come up and the light areas need to go down. More pictures:
With very light taps of a body hammer, the high spots where tapped down and the low areas tapped up. Between tapping sessions run the file over the area to see where it is at. I started this process working from, based off the pictures, left to right. See below picture:
I didn't have time to continue this process. I got as far as the windshield wiper hole. Hopefully this process can be continued until the panel will only need a skim coat of body filler. Another tip, I like to listen to music while I work in the shop...this needs to be done with no back ground noise...so you can hear what the hammer, panel and dolly if needed, sounds like while tapping the metal.
I sure hope that made since.....
Pictures:
I cannot take credit following...It comes from Randy Ferguson's web site, I was viewing his repair of a crunched up 40 Willys coupe. It had been wrecked while drag racing. He stated that to help see the ripples (high and low spots) on the crunched up top of the coupe. He cleaned the wadded up metal to a nice shinny finish, ripples and all. He then took a wide sharpie pen and washed down the entire area with the wide sharpie pen.
That is what I did in the above picture. The dark areas on the cowl piece are the low areas shown using the sharpie marks. The scuffed area's is where a large flat round bastard file was run over the panel to find the high spots. Don't use a powered tool it will remove to much of the sharpie marks. Also this panel is very thin and we want to save as much metal as possible. Now we can see exactly where the high and low areas are on the panel. The dark areas need to come up and the light areas need to go down. More pictures:
With very light taps of a body hammer, the high spots where tapped down and the low areas tapped up. Between tapping sessions run the file over the area to see where it is at. I started this process working from, based off the pictures, left to right. See below picture:
I didn't have time to continue this process. I got as far as the windshield wiper hole. Hopefully this process can be continued until the panel will only need a skim coat of body filler. Another tip, I like to listen to music while I work in the shop...this needs to be done with no back ground noise...so you can hear what the hammer, panel and dolly if needed, sounds like while tapping the metal.
I sure hope that made since.....
Superfreak
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warped sheetmetal takes patience to straighten out.
Glenwood
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Thanks Crumley, this is useful information!
Crumley
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Well Gents, here is the latest update:
While primarily using the rounded pointy end of a body hammer, the low areas where bumped up and the high areas bumped down. It turned out pretty decent for an amateur.
The dark areas will require a skim coat of body filler to make the panel flat.
Pictures:
The final patch panels needed on the lower cowl fresh air box have been made. They are tacked into place. Hopefully this has completed the patch work needed on the lower cowl section. Now there is a lot of welding ahead.
While primarily using the rounded pointy end of a body hammer, the low areas where bumped up and the high areas bumped down. It turned out pretty decent for an amateur.
The dark areas will require a skim coat of body filler to make the panel flat.
Pictures:
The final patch panels needed on the lower cowl fresh air box have been made. They are tacked into place. Hopefully this has completed the patch work needed on the lower cowl section. Now there is a lot of welding ahead.
keepat
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Very nice metalwork, your attention to detail is excellent.
Pat
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Coming along.
Crumley
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Thank you gents,
After work today, I did manage to get out to the shop to begin the welding process. I started on the RH lower cowl and fresh air box. For the picture hounds out there:
After work today, I did manage to get out to the shop to begin the welding process. I started on the RH lower cowl and fresh air box. For the picture hounds out there:
Superfreak
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Looking good. You going to grind down the welds??
747mopar
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Nice work, love the car too.
I can share my warp nightmare, may be helpful to some. I needed to replace the rear Dutchman panel on my 69 Charger which isn't assessible on the bottom for dolly work and boy was it fun. The panel I bought had to be welded on the full length of the trunk opening which is a flat easily warped area. I very patiently tacked it in making sure not to build heat in any area, it went smoothly until the last bit where it went awful wrong resulting in what you showed. I fought with it cutting some of the welds back out but eventually cut the hole weld back out. The second attempt I laid a cool damp towel just above the weld area and very patiently welded it again with no problems. Then just my luck AMD came out with a full patch panel that is what I needed to begin with since it repaired all the rott so out it came again for the new AMD panel.
I can share my warp nightmare, may be helpful to some. I needed to replace the rear Dutchman panel on my 69 Charger which isn't assessible on the bottom for dolly work and boy was it fun. The panel I bought had to be welded on the full length of the trunk opening which is a flat easily warped area. I very patiently tacked it in making sure not to build heat in any area, it went smoothly until the last bit where it went awful wrong resulting in what you showed. I fought with it cutting some of the welds back out but eventually cut the hole weld back out. The second attempt I laid a cool damp towel just above the weld area and very patiently welded it again with no problems. Then just my luck AMD came out with a full patch panel that is what I needed to begin with since it repaired all the rott so out it came again for the new AMD panel.
Glenwood
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looking good Crumley!
Crumley
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Gents thank you for the encouragement. It's good to know this thread is being viewed.
Superfreak, yes, the welds will get ground down, I won't be very picky about it though. No one will ever see them....lol.
747 mopar, I know your pain of warping when welding thin panels. The bigger the panel the bigger the warp. I had the same issue with the blue truck in my avatar. The truck had auxiliary fuel tanks, they where accessed thru holes cut into the side of the bed panel. They where on both sides of the bed. I made patch panels for each side and they had a nice tight fit.
I took my time on each tack, no matter how much time was taken or how cool the panel, the panel would warp. It would occur while making the last few welds/tacks. The panel would make a very distinct bong sound and would sink in. This was very frustrating....as soon as a relief cut was made the panel would pop back out into its proper place. No matter how many times I tried, at the last tacks, it would "bong" and sink in....at this point, I had to laugh to keep from crying.
I would try and re-stretch the metal with hammer on dolly but, there where areas that couldn't be reached. The areas that could be reached, ended up cracking, due to over working the weld. I am now, kind of gun shy when it comes to welding in patches on large panels.....lol.
A little update from this afternoon....more welding. Pictures:
Superfreak, yes, the welds will get ground down, I won't be very picky about it though. No one will ever see them....lol.
747 mopar, I know your pain of warping when welding thin panels. The bigger the panel the bigger the warp. I had the same issue with the blue truck in my avatar. The truck had auxiliary fuel tanks, they where accessed thru holes cut into the side of the bed panel. They where on both sides of the bed. I made patch panels for each side and they had a nice tight fit.
I took my time on each tack, no matter how much time was taken or how cool the panel, the panel would warp. It would occur while making the last few welds/tacks. The panel would make a very distinct bong sound and would sink in. This was very frustrating....as soon as a relief cut was made the panel would pop back out into its proper place. No matter how many times I tried, at the last tacks, it would "bong" and sink in....at this point, I had to laugh to keep from crying.
I would try and re-stretch the metal with hammer on dolly but, there where areas that couldn't be reached. The areas that could be reached, ended up cracking, due to over working the weld. I am now, kind of gun shy when it comes to welding in patches on large panels.....lol.
A little update from this afternoon....more welding. Pictures:
Last edited:
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