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E-85 Max Wedge

grubby65

grubby65

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I am in the initial stages of putting together a plan to build a Max-Wedge engine to put in my 1964 Dodge Polara 500. The kicker is the build will be based around running it on E-85. I live in the MidWest so the $1.80/gallon is very attractive. The car will see most of it's time on the street with an occasional trip to the drag strip. I have been in contact with several engine builders who seem very interested in the project. My question is does anyone have any tips or suggestions for an E-85 engine?
 
my exposure to E85 is entirely Import based, so take this with a grain of salt.

you will need to upgrade all full system components to handle this highly corrosive fuel, all rubber will need to go, and anything that is flexible will need to have Teflon lining. i would put a drain nut in your fuel tank, or cell, because the fuel has a low shelf life. if you plan on running EFI, you will need a huge fuel pump and id suggest a ethanol analyzer.

http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/ECA/ECA.shtml
 
What compression are you looking at running?

Boost or N/A?
 
I haven't exactly decided on the compression. But, as I stated it will be a MaxWedge clone running on E-85, so no boost. But, I'm thinking somewhere in the 11-12 range for compression. I live in a town with an Ethanol plant so E-85 is currently priced at $1.70/gallon. So the idea is to get the power by compression and hopefully make it more driveable. The motor will be based off a 440 block with non-MaxWedge aluminum heads, so it would also utilize the 440 style cross ram.
 
e85 will probably burn 40% more fuel. i don't think using carter type carbs and e85 will be a happy mix;... could be wrong. the whole fuel system will need a serious upgrade to handle the volume. carter carb main metering internal passages are smaller than holleys and i don't think they can provide the fuel volume.
 
Better look into E85 specific carburetors. I started with a gasoline Dominator and had to make some serious changes to get the thing to make any horsepower. Instead of the 12.5-13:1 normal a/f ratio you need to go to about 8:1. Lew is correct, I seriously doubt the Carters will handle it.

This is a quick run down on my E85 saga.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,81562.0.html

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KIo9QAGjFVs3IAOsksnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByZWc0dGJtBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMQ--?p=laroy+engines&vid=36150a004689b598f6228ef2e2b0ac8a&l=00:40&turl=http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=WN.%2flbK%2baG13uNAqK%2b6M0lUzw&pid=15.1&rurl=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbZ8jGq6x1c&tit=Jim+LaRoy+Pulls+696.48+horsepower&c=0&sigr=11bh82i34&sigt=111jb4obj&sigi=1258mchok&age=1221936213&fr2=p:s,v:v&fr=yhs-mozilla-003&hsimp=yhs-003&hspart=mozilla&tt=b

Since then we've built 451 engines that make 787 HP on 91 octane. I'm sticking with pump gas.

With the carburetor corrosion I experienced.......E85?.........never again.
 
Last edited:
If it's a street car a secondary fuel tank is a must or you won't be going far without constantly filling up. Lewtot184 is right about the 40%. It's E85's biggest downfall but the extra flow is awesome for keeping the internals cool.
 
Why run the comp up near 12.0 ? I have not run E-85 but on mine running on 92 pump I only run 10.6 comp with the aluminum heads and that works good for me on 92 pump. I have good quench and use a D dished piston to keep my comp at 10.6 using the 70 to 75 CC EZ heads. But as I said I have never used E-85 and only know that you use more of it then you would of pump gas. Even though the pump gas today is crap my car runs pretty good on it with no pinging at all. Right now 87 pump is about $2.10 in my area and the 92 and 93 pump is right around $2.45 per gallon. It may be as cheap as E-85 in the long run since you would use more E-85. Good luck what ever you decide. Ron
 
The E85 is an excellent fuel, high octane, high power and good cooling. Corrosion characteristics overall are similar to pump gas. With EFI the fuel consumption will increase approx 20-30%. Build high static compression, bleed off dynamic compression if you need with a suitable cam, and you have an excellent build.
 
alcohol doesn't have any octane value. it's a low btu slow burning fuel. it's real advantage is the oxygen molecules it carries. it will eat up parts. i'd be curious to see what the long term effects would be on a metal galvanized stock type gas tank. we know it will damage neoprene and i know the 10% stuff we have to run will eat paint and gasket sealers and will wreck cellulose fuel filters. the new cars use plastic gas tanks so applying new standards to the old won't work, unless a fuel cell is used.
 
Does E-85 require oiling the cylinders down at all like I hear the alcohol cars have to do ? I know alcohol cars make a little more power but its not all that much more power from what I hear is it ? So will E-85 make much or any more power then running race gas ? I have never fooled with alcohol or E-85 at all but to me alcohol sounds like its a bit more hassle for maintnance and not really all that much more power. I just figured most go to E-85 for the lower price but I know it uses more of it and I dont think there is alot of places in Md where I am to get it. At least for a street car anyway. Ron
 
383man said:
Does E-85 require oiling the cylinders down at all like I hear the alcohol cars have to do ? I know alcohol cars make a little more power but its not all that much more power from what I hear is it ? So will E-85 make much or any more power then running race gas ? ...
Click to expand...
Strictly mathematically E85 will make 11-27% more power than pump gas, most hi performance engines seem to see a 10-15% increase. To get the power increase you have to understand the different AFR required with E85.
Personally I've never heard of any oiling down the cylinders with E85...
 
SwedCharger67 said:
Your maths are not correct. BTUs per volume are less, but volume is bigger, and the sum is more power than pump gas.
Click to expand...
the greater power is from increased oxygen atoms that alcohol carries. the extra volume ups the btu value.
 
IQ52 said:
Better look into E85 specific carburetors. I started with a gasoline Dominator and had to make some serious changes to get the thing to make any horsepower. Instead of the 12.5-13:1 normal a/f ratio you need to go to about 8:1. Lew is correct, I seriously doubt the Carters will handle it.

This is a quick run down on my E85 saga.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,81562.0.html

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KIo9QAGjFVs3IAOsksnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByZWc0dGJtBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMQ--?p=laroy+engines&vid=36150a004689b598f6228ef2e2b0ac8a&l=00:40&turl=http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=WN.%2flbK%2baG13uNAqK%2b6M0lUzw&pid=15.1&rurl=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbZ8jGq6x1c&tit=Jim+LaRoy+Pulls+696.48+horsepower&c=0&sigr=11bh82i34&sigt=111jb4obj&sigi=1258mchok&age=1221936213&fr2=p:s,v:v&fr=yhs-mozilla-003&hsimp=yhs-003&hspart=mozilla&tt=b

Since then we've built 451 engines that make 787 HP on 91 octane. I'm sticking with pump gas.

With the carburetor corrosion I experienced.......E85?.........never again.
Click to expand...

I read your links - pretty damn impressive! I've been thinking about E85 combos lately and have a few thoughts/questions that I'd love to hear your take on:

Your combo was 14.5:1 CR; what do you think a good rule of thumb CR limit for E85 is?

Also, I have been toying with the idea of building an engine set up for both race gas and E85 utilizing Holley's HP Dominator EFI (E85 compatible). Drive on the street with E85 and a compatible tune on the EFI/ignition. When you want to turn up the heat, run the tank down to empty then fill with 104 race gas - run the electric pump (engine off) and bleed the E-85 from the fuel rails. Re-squirt the EFI control module with the 104 race gas tune, fire it up and head to the strip.

You could conceivably do the same with carbs, just needing 2 different carbs you'd swap between fuels.

Thoughts?
 
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