Non original engine

Paul_G · Aug 19, 2016

I have my eye on this 70 GTX. It is listed as a non original engine, possibly a factory replacement engine. How much will that hurt the value of the car, does it really make any difference?
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/cto/5739778391.html

barbee6043 · Aug 19, 2016

very few if these type cars have the original engine. 440 or hemi came in the GTX that year.. warranty blocks have NO vin on the pad. value will be related to condition and correctness of the car. no. matchng is **** rententive to many folks. some people will not buy anything but totally original right down to the drivetrain. few out there.

NJRR · Aug 19, 2016

Well, as far as value goes, a warranty block is better than having a non-matching numbered motor. Not significantly though.

terzmo · Aug 19, 2016

non original motor on muscle cars makes a difference.....street rods it doesn't....There are some real picky people who have to have # match. I figure a non matching # car should be less but how is it figured because condition of the car is also a consideration...want a # matching piece of junk....or a non matching sharp car...it's whatever you and the seller can negotiate to get the deal done. That's the formula

polywideblock · Aug 19, 2016

nice looking car

lots of blue there

lots of these cars lost their original motor when they went "bang "while street racing ( especially 4 speeds and missed gears ) , the older they get the less likely they are to have one .
while there are picky buyers out there most are just happy to have a REAL muscle car as opposed to a clone

mmissile · Aug 19, 2016

I can't remember the last time I had a "matching number" car. maybe 20-30 cars ago.

ws23jrt · Aug 19, 2016

polywideblock said:
nice looking car

lots of blue there
lots of these cars lost their original motor when they went "bang "while street racing ( especially 4 speeds and missed gears ) , the older they get the less likely they are to have one .
while there are picky buyers out there most are just happy to have a REAL muscle car as opposed to a clone

I agree--Those that are **** about all the numbers matching do seem to get a lot of press in our world.
The up side of having a car that will never be a museum piece is one can enjoy owning and driving them as they were made for.
Some in this hobby have a need for a gem and spend cubic dollars making something that has to sit and just be looked at while talking about the numbers that make it -extra- cool to look at.

barbee6043 · Aug 20, 2016

I have owned a bunch of mostly 69 runners a few 68's and 70's and few in bees . havn't had one since bout 2003, the last one. I had maybe 2 out of ? many. the one that sticks in my mind was a 69 runner, got it from mopar buddy. the car had been in his county its WHOLE life, he knew of maybe 6-8 (maybe more) engines that had been in it since birth. as happened the last owner had built the original engine, found it somewhere! ha
another funny. back bout 88-9 I found a 70 challenger roller, complete with dana. V code car. as turns out I had its original numbers engine sitting in a 68 GTX I got off a buddy. these cars resided in area of 70 miles.
chevy guys mastered the art of restamping blocks. #'s match? be careful??

PRND21 · Aug 20, 2016

My 2 cents: unless you're going to flip it trying to make money, makes no difference. If you like the car and are happy with the price, buy it and drive it.

Ranger16 · Aug 20, 2016

Paul_G said:
I have my eye on this 70 GTX. It is listed as a non original engine, possibly a factory replacement engine. How much will that hurt the value of the car,

I would guess that two equal cars, one with numbers matching and the other without, the numbers car would bring more money. How much, I would not even guess. But, I suppose that would also depend on the buyer and just how important that is to him.

does it really make any difference?

THAT is a question only you can answer. Ask yourself why you are buying it. Is it an investment or a toy? These cars have all past their depreciation stage. Even the toy will appreciate. Numbers matching is nice if you have it, but I'm not really sure what it is worth, and this is from a guy WITH a numbers car. I would have bought my car without numbers matching.

Photon440 · Aug 20, 2016

My car has an original engine but I have no idea what car it originally came out of. It doesn't matter to me.

5wndwcpe · Aug 20, 2016

"How much will it hurt the value ?"

As the above answers show, none, some and maybe alot. Realize a numbers matching 318 car is not going to get anyone excited but a numbers matching Hemi car will. You asked specifically about hurting the "value" which can only mean the value to someone else. As has been said a bazillion times, it's worth what someone will pay for it and like it or not, numbers matter to people with money.

As far as value to you, it only matters dependent upon your end goal. If you want to flip it, then yes, you must take that into consideration. If you like the car and just want to enjoy it for what it is, numbers don't mean a damn thing.

eldubb440 · Aug 20, 2016

I look at it from the other end....... "how much value does numbers matching add?"

I'd be far more concerned with the condition of the body, and the workmanship involved........ what's up with all those dents on the left inner wheelhouse? that would be a good spot to start poking around

and few things bug me more than a picture of the trunk mat...... it's what is under the mat that counts!

5wndwcpe · Aug 20, 2016

eldubb440 said:
I look at it from the other end....... "how much value does numbers matching add?"

I'd be far more concerned with the condition of the body, and the workmanship involved........ what's up with all those dents on the left inner wheelhouse? that would be a good spot to start poking around

and few things bug me more than a picture of the trunk mat...... it's what is under the mat that counts!

No ****, I had not looked at the ad. Yikes !

XMAN JR · Aug 20, 2016

A cars value is only what a person is willing to pay for it. Remember 67 & later there is no such thing as numbers matching.

coloradodave · Aug 20, 2016

Numbers matching verses not has been well covered here. The only thing I have to add is that just as often as not at the big name auctions, the Resto-mods will out-price the "original" cars. If you're are an enthusiast, buy it because you love it and want to drive it...

ws23jrt · Aug 20, 2016

coloradodave said:
Numbers matching verses not has been well covered here. The only thing I have to add is that just as often as not at the big name auctions, the Resto-mods will out-price the "original" cars. If you're are an enthusiast, buy it because you love it and want to drive it...

I agree that this question has been more than well covered.
My two cents is a repeat of what has been said a thousand times. Their are as many different buyers as their are different cars.
Some folks tend to get hung up on value to the point that it takes away from the fun of owning something that is not money.--It is a car---
Others in the hobby do see these cars as "money" and they are the ones that tend to buy and sell with that in mind.

Value is important especially for one that is just looking for the car of their long time interest. And no one want's to be made to look like a fool. Buying smart is always good and seeing the large swings in selling prices is intimidating for all.---Part of the game---

Paul Boucher · Aug 20, 2016

Man, thank you all for those comments. They just answered a ton of questions/thoughts I have been asking myself as I look for my first car. I don't want a trailer queen. Don't get me wrong, I want it to be NICE, but I want to enjoy it, with my son, and am leaning more and more towards the, who cares, and find/build the car I want, not find the car that has all the matching numbers, and fender tag, and options, and build sheet, etc. that I want. I think the chances of that are slim to none, or out of my price range (1969-1/2 Q5 A12 Road Runner w/ white interior). If it is about resale then more power to you, but if it is for enjoyment, then it doesn't matter as much.

Bruzilla · Aug 20, 2016

Numbers matching was a concept that grew out of the 1990s, and was just a point of differentiation that owners could make to explain why their car was better than someone else's. It took on a panache in the 2000s as a marketing bonus, but now that the market has collapsed I don't see it as much of a plus up anymore. A 440 GTX used to be a license to print money, but not anymore. Now just Hemi cars are drawing big bucks and 440 cars are more entry-level collector cars and numbers matching doesn't add much value.

Of course, this still doesn't stop guys from touting their 318 and even Slant 6 numbers matching status.

Paul_G · Aug 21, 2016

Thanks for the replies guys. Lots of different points of view. I went and saw the GTX today. It is a way nicer car in the pictures than in person. It has a poor, tired paint job, rust under rear window needing a metal patch, a hacked sheet metal trunk floor, tired interior, and a knock in the engine. The under side was in good shape, the car has good bones to start a project, minimum rust repair prior to repaint.

The seller did honestly describe the car on the phone, cant complain about that. For me, I am going to keep looking. There is better out there for that price.

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