BAFRAID
She’s looking like a Super Bee again!!
so I'm trying to decide if I should totally rebuild or just refresh the top end of the 383 in my Super Bee? It turns over. Have not checked compression. Any thoughts?
383 hp rebuild or refresh?
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BAFRAID
She’s looking like a Super Bee again!!
65-440
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You're already there, motor is almost out anyway. Rebuild it !
A compression check would give you a definite answer, but by the looks of it nothing has been done to it for quite awhile. I'd bite the bullet and completely rebuild it if you want it to be dependable.
SgtLee511
Well-Known Member
Not knowing how experienced you are, or your age group. I use to enjoy leaning over those fenders, changing this or that, not so mutch now. I just had the machine shop rebuild mine, step by step paying as I went. Mutch easier to bite the bullet that way. Luv the bee, something to that "Once upon a time look you start with"
texas69bee
Well-Known Member
If you decide to go for the rebuild I have a xe268h cam and lifters that have less than 2 hrs. on it that I'll let go at a decent price. It's a 3 bolt. Pm me if interested.
Phil McGrath
Well-Known Member
If its the numbers matching engine I would set it aside and think what I would do next. If its not then I would gut it out and find a 400 block and build it..... But that's just me..
BAFRAID
She’s looking like a Super Bee again!!
Thank you for all of the great advice and information. The site has been amazing for asking questions and receiving advice from experienced members.
PRND21: I definitely want dependable and reliable.
SgtLee511: I have experience with air cooled VW engines but nothing of this size. I'm in my mid 40s. I also have three young children running around. While they do enjoy watching, it definitely takes more time getting things done. More than likely I will find a machine shop like you suggested.
Phil: it is a numbers matching engine and a car overall. I have lots of paperwork to document the car. I will keep it original for now.
PRND21: I definitely want dependable and reliable.
SgtLee511: I have experience with air cooled VW engines but nothing of this size. I'm in my mid 40s. I also have three young children running around. While they do enjoy watching, it definitely takes more time getting things done. More than likely I will find a machine shop like you suggested.
Phil: it is a numbers matching engine and a car overall. I have lots of paperwork to document the car. I will keep it original for now.
If it was me, I would rebuild it. Why was it not ran in 8 years? Pull the heads and see what the cylinder walls look like first though. If they are decent and can still see some cross hatch, you could get away with a top end refresh. If this is going to be a driver with limited racing, could be an option.
I would have more peace of mind knowing what the main and rod bearings looked like however. Plus, with the block apart it can be hot tanked to clean all of the coolant passages of crud and the bores checked by a pro. More money of course.
I would have more peace of mind knowing what the main and rod bearings looked like however. Plus, with the block apart it can be hot tanked to clean all of the coolant passages of crud and the bores checked by a pro. More money of course.
BAFRAID
She’s looking like a Super Bee again!!
Threewood: eight years ago the car was found sitting in a barn and the guy who founded turned it over. Prior to that it had sat in that barn for who knows how many years. I know the water passages are pretty cruddy and should be cleaned. I think I will just tear it down and have a rebuilt.
BAFRAID
She’s looking like a Super Bee again!!
The car has some pretty amazing documentation. I have registration tags from the early 70s as well as the original title from North Carolina
You can always buy one of those little camera things to look inside the cylinders and at least check for scoring and crap like that. I think they are pretty cheap $150 or so. Plus as mentioned, a compression check always helps but I'd rebuild it after sitting that long if it's almost all apart anyways.
BAFRAID
She’s looking like a Super Bee again!!
I called shop here in town to get a general idea of cost to rebuild. He said, for a Longblock, it would be about $2800. He also mentioned that if the compression was higher, 9:1 or 10:1, that would need to be changed to run on today's gas. Is this correct? He mentioned a few other changes that would be done related to more modern parts or hardened steal parts in the heads/valves.
I then talked to one of my friends who is restoring a 67 GTO. He said he is going to rebuild his own engine. He's going to take it apart, check everything and keep as many of the original parts as he can. Put in new bearings, seals, maybe rings, have the heads and block checked for any cracks.
Any thought as far as using the original Pistons, rods, crank, cam?
I then talked to one of my friends who is restoring a 67 GTO. He said he is going to rebuild his own engine. He's going to take it apart, check everything and keep as many of the original parts as he can. Put in new bearings, seals, maybe rings, have the heads and block checked for any cracks.
Any thought as far as using the original Pistons, rods, crank, cam?
Phil McGrath
Well-Known Member
If its in need of a rebuild there are wear and replace items that are going too be needed, rings, bearings, cam, lifters, pistons, gaskets..... The big parts like the block, heads and there related parts, crank and rods can be machined back into useable condition IF there still enough material too work with and this still depends on if they pass inspection. There are still a bunch of IF's..... And your not going too know what's, what until its apart cleaned, measured and inspected.
Compression is a big can of works and people are easily confused. Put this way you can still have compression you just also need a good cam too go with it, so its a balancing act. One does not need to go insane with either compression or cam for great performance but you do need a little of each too get from point A too B.
Right now your at a cross roads, go 100% stock rebuild or put some modern performance upgrades in while its apart now.... The 383 is a good engine it was Ma Mopar's bread and butter engine for ages. But its long in the tooth in its stock form even the HP version that came in your car and I don't think you would be happy with a stock rebuild.
BAFRAID
She’s looking like a Super Bee again!!
Thank you Phil! I'm not familiar at all with the balance between cam and compression/stroke. What I ultimately want is a STRONG, mean sounding, reliable engine that is close to stock in terms of looks. It's a numbers matching engine so I hate to alter the block more than needed. Any suggestions or combinations to go with that will provide what I'm looking for?
Thank you, Tad
Thank you, Tad
SgtLee511
Well-Known Member
Good Luck to you, anything that you need to know can be found at this site. Just decide first what your looking for, for me at 50 now its about a restoration I love these cars So thats my route. Speed cost a bit more that's about all. You mentioned kids at home heres a pic of my 11 year old grandaughter grinding away, she charged 10 bucks lol. Good Luck
Phil McGrath
Well-Known Member
Well that's a pretty broad range. If it were I, it would never hurt you too go the classic old school 383 route. Just a balanced and blue printed short block hold the compression at 10.1 and slide in the .484 Purple Shaft cam with a nice intake and paint it too match with a 750/780 Vac Sec carb on top. Yea, it may be a old school combo but its pretty bullet/bomb proof and that's what makes it such a stout combo. Keep the magnum exh manifolds, match ported too the gaskets and run 2.5 pipes with a cross over, good muffs and 2.5in tail pipes. Super simple, clean and stone axe reliable with more than enough power too spin the tires and get into trouble.
If your a handy fella` scrounge up the old DC porting templates and a cheap motor tool and get after the heads. It really isn't rocket science porting them, that is if you use the templates. Then have the machine shop finish them off with whatever is needed like guides, hard seats and a 3 angle valve job.
The 383 Mag/Commando was factory rated at 335HP and that was a honest John figure, a nice 383 like the above should be closer too 400HP without having too spin it hard or be hard on your wallet.
My .02
BAFRAID
She’s looking like a Super Bee again!!
Thank you Phil! That's exactly what I'm looking for! I'm not to versed on intakes. Is the stock intake considered "nice"? Currently I have the original carb as well as a similar carb that is date coded in the 80s. The porting I am familiar with.
Phil McGrath
Well-Known Member
Well, its a good enough piece and it will get you by. But there only 2 main drawbacks are there heavy and they hold in heat, that's bad and why I recommended a Aluminum intake and paint it. I think the best duel plane 383 intake is still the old school Edelbrock DP4B and it looks very, very stock when painted. While they have been discontinued for many years now they still surface for fair prices, so there worth hunting up and cleaning up when needed. Next would be the M1 dual plane it closely resembles the 71-383 intake in appearance but who is going too notice? Not many, I don't see the M1 dual plane selling used very often and that's a testament too how well the DP4B worked... If your car is a Air Grabber car or if you later decide too upgrade too a Air Grabber set up both intakes with still fit under the hood.
The original 383 carb was small at 625cfm and there was a reason why the smart 383 guy's back in the day scrounged the 750cfm unit off the 440 looks stock but not, 383's like too pull hard right now! That is if you feed them right. My skills in tuning a AFB/AVS type carbs is nil, I get lost in there metering jets and stepped down metering rods I do envy the guy's that can tune them too a razors edge. But tuning the 750/780cfm 3310 Holley is pretty retard/fool proof so If I can beat that drum so can you.
Another recommendation is I would also find and scrounge a DC/MP Aluminum water pump housing. They shed weight while looking stock when painted and they also move more water. The water pump housing from 440 source has issues and doesn't look stock even painted.
For what its worth that's my .02
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