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500hp Engine Options

I would consider all costs, with a hemi installation you need a few hemi specific parts, the engines arent cheap nor the parts that follow it. Although your car is worth more with an elephant under the hood, and ITS A HEMI!!!! So that opens an entire new world of apparel you get to wear, hats, and shirts, and all kinds of pins they sell at the car shows, lol...

I personally love the 6 pack big block, I have owned them both, and to me a stock 6 pack feels more powerful than the big girl, all over the rpm range, and if its a 4speed 6 pack, wow what fun!!!

440-6 will be more cost effective, But still not "cheap" - Since you are not doing a real v code car, I would grab an aluminum intake with the new holleys, and a fiberglass air cleaner figure thats around $2000 with linkage and lines, then a set of source aluminum heads $1000 , a source 500" rotating assembly $2250, pick the voodoo cam $200 that suits your needs, $90 for a melling m63hv, $50 of an is63 with bushing, felpro 2110 $65, grab some used sheet metal for $150ish (timing, oil, and valve covers), $60 CC 2109 timing set (3 bolt for lunati), bolt kit $50, ARP head and main bolts $250, carter 4862 $100, fuel pump rod $20, Taylor wires 74072 $65, plugs $35, you can spend another $300 on rockers, shaft, and pushrods, another $150 on a balancer.

So thats like $7000 in parts with no block
Then I know a gentleman that sells 440 (early webbing blocks) for $700 all done, bored, painted either blue or orange, cam bearings, freeze plugs installed (need to send him a piston for honing)... So at $8000 you are very close (most builders get $1000 range to assemble and minor machine, then figure oil is $50, and I think I would have them clean up the source heads, maybe valve job and port match the heads and intake)... Figure $9K done and done..
That is what a fresh 440 (non stroker) 6 pack with an oem 6 pack, 906 heads, and a air cleaner would cost you, easily...



I personally like the cast iron intake, old carbs, cast iron heads, and as much looking like an old 6 pack as possible, but you can easily get 500 reliable horse out of the above setup, pump gas, good idle, good vacuum for power brakes...

My personal advice is, I had 400 hp 440's and 500+ on autos and on sticks (as many guys here have) and unless you are racing, don't get hung up on the numbers, if your a secure man looking for a nice car to drive, build a strong reliable motor, **** the numbers (its hard not to get at least 400). Granted racing is another story, but you will be hard pressed to have a lot more fun in a 500hp car vs a 400hp car on the street... being honest, IN A LOT of cases on street tires that extra 100hp will cost you time in the quarter mile.
Don't flame me for this guys, I just remember the first 500+ hp 440 I had built and installed in my 72 rr clone when I was a lot younger it was replacing a stout 400hp range 383, and the change wasn't what I expected, still spun the **** out of them 50 series Bf's, lol...

I regretted changing it with in a month, I spent like $4000 on the motor and sold my 383 for $800, I wanted it back, lol, ever since then I never got hung up on hp, once you pass 390hp on street tires with no traction control, your just trying to make up for other short comings, lol..

GRANTED if you are racing, more hp is more better... but for a street car, cruiser, burnout machine, 400hp in any b or e body is FUN!!!

That said the above list will easily get you to 500.

Ideally some of the best deals on motors I have gotten was projects others built, I just grabbed a 383 fresh rebuild, 69 hp motor, never ran, +.030, decent parts,500 lift tappet cam, new holley on top of it, crank turned and balanced, 906 heads, aluminum intake for $1500, he paid that in machine work, balancing, and assembly... not sure what I am going to do with it yet, just couldnt pass it up, my builder called me and told me about it, he didnt build it, guy decided to go 440, car came with rebuilt never fired 383, I had my guy check it out for $100 and he said its good...
 
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I posted this article the other day. Shows a part by part hp increase on a 440

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/mopp-0104-buildup-1969-440-magnum-engine/

Great article. It is from 2001 so I wonder if still the best build. Perhaps I will have my builder research the latest version of each part listed.

The other thing I noticed is how the 6 pack was ruled out for cost reasons - and they used another carburetor system with great results. So with my not being a 440 car originally I'm not sure having the additional 6 pack cost and complexity adds more value. The bang for buck ratio is low. Hence, I am thinking that a well built 440 with 450-500 HP will bring similar $ as a 6 pack engine that was added to a non-original 6 pack car.
 
Sounds like you have a lot more thinking to do...

I am guessing this would be your best bet...
buy a stroker kit from source and a set of heads
Find a block locally and find a machine shop that can check, cook, clean, bore, hone, install f/p and cam bearings...
Buy all your parts, cam/lifters, gaskets, bearings, plugs, intake, and carb.
Find a good mopar builder and hand it all to him. They tend to work cheaper when they have to do less thinking, "heres EVERY part, all machined, please assemble it for me..."

I would imagine you can build a 550hp 500" roller cam, roller rocker, aluminum head, stroker for $8500-9K with a decent intake, carb, and ignition system... If you disassemble, clean, and restore the tin yourself..
intake/carb/ignition-$1500 (BG/victor/msd)
Stroker kit and heads $3500
Parts-bearings, freeze plugs, drive shaft, pump rod, fuel pump, oil pump, timing set, gaskets, psh rods, etc-$750
Roller cam, lifters, roller rockers, shafts- $1600 (comp/harland sharp)
Donor 440 $750
ARP bolts $500
Machine work $1000
Assembly $1000

I would personally pick compression ratio around 10-10.5-1, lunati roller cam (they have one that is 292 dur 560 lift), AED 950, mopar performance, edlebrock, trick flow, all will have good intakes that will work well, something that is 2500+...

That will give you more power than you know what to do with, I would have your builder do a bit of porting and a valve job on the stealths, also don't forget you are going to need to set aside $2000 or so to do a tranny with a matching converter... And while your there, make sure your rear is up to par, a quick rebuild, gear change, and posi check... Also make sure your frame, tires, steering, brakes, and suspension are up to the workout that motor and a sharp shifting tranny is gonna give it...

Then after all that is done, get a harness for the front seat and take a video of the look on your face the first time it makes you pee a little...
 
Find a block locally and find a machine shop that can check, cook, clean, bore, hone, install f/p and cam bearings...
Buy all your parts, cam/lifters, gaskets, bearings, plugs, intake, and carb.
Find a good mopar builder and hand it all to him. They tend to work cheaper when they have to do less thinking, "heres EVERY part, all machined, please assemble it for me..."
Here is a classic quote of dumb thinking if I've ever seen one.
 
Sounds like you have a lot more thinking to do...

I am guessing this would be your best bet...
buy a stroker kit from source and a set of heads
Find a block locally and find a machine shop that can check, cook, clean, bore, hone, install f/p and cam bearings...
Buy all your parts, cam/lifters, gaskets, bearings, plugs, intake, and carb.
Find a good mopar builder and hand it all to him. They tend to work cheaper when they have to do less thinking, "heres EVERY part, all machined, please assemble it for me..."

I would imagine you can build a 550hp 500" roller cam, roller rocker, aluminum head, stroker for $8500-9K with a decent intake, carb, and ignition system... If you disassemble, clean, and restore the tin yourself..
intake/carb/ignition-$1500 (BG/victor/msd)
Stroker kit and heads $3500
Parts-bearings, freeze plugs, drive shaft, pump rod, fuel pump, oil pump, timing set, gaskets, psh rods, etc-$750
Roller cam, lifters, roller rockers, shafts- $1600 (comp/harland sharp)
Donor 440 $750
ARP bolts $500
Machine work $1000
Assembly $1000

I would personally pick compression ratio around 10-10.5-1, lunati roller cam (they have one that is 292 dur 560 lift), AED 950, mopar performance, edlebrock, trick flow, all will have good intakes that will work well, something that is 2500+...

That will give you more power than you know what to do with, I would have your builder do a bit of porting and a valve job on the stealths, also don't forget you are going to need to set aside $2000 or so to do a tranny with a matching converter... And while your there, make sure your rear is up to par, a quick rebuild, gear change, and posi check... Also make sure your frame, tires, steering, brakes, and suspension are up to the workout that motor and a sharp shifting tranny is gonna give it...

Then after all that is done, get a harness for the front seat and take a video of the look on your face the first time it makes you pee a little...

Doing this would be WAY more tedious than I am looking. I want to buy a complete or nearly complete motor. Source only a few accessories and have my installer do it along with A/C and drive it home in a month or less!
 
Here is a classic quote of dumb thinking if I've ever seen one.
If you are on a budget, you can save a lot sourcing your own parts, whats so dumb about that? I do it all the time and my motors run good, and cost less than an crate you will ever find..

I like the running around and hunting, its part of the hobby. I just found a set of KB 440 pistons brand new on craigslist for $100, he has the summit receipt he bought them a year ago for over $500, I am sure i will be building a 030 over 440 in the next 6 months...


If you find a good builder he will have no problem assembling your parts, My builder loves it, takes a lot of work off the table for him, he gets handed everything but the pistons, rods, block, heads, and crank, then he goes and picks up the parts at the machine shop (sometimes they deliver them), block all ready for assembly, pistons mounted, heads all cleaned, and he builds the motor, normally about 3 days, but I had one I picked up the next morning after the machine shop finished.

So call it dumb thinking or what ever you like, I have been doing it for years, my gtx has a 440 I put 20K miles on, runs great, handed to me dyno tuned and ready to drop in, and it cost me $3000 done all parts, machine, assembly, top to bottom.

Trick is finding a good builder, we are lucky to have 3 I can think of off the top of my head, the 1 I use does great work, has a dyno all setup, a separate building room, a simple machine shop in his shop (lathe, bridgeport, and a crazy rottler head machine). Charges me $750 to assemble an engine and the heads, $1000 all tuned and he builds the carb, I buy the carb parts....

So dumb or not, I do pretty well with the system, may not be the way you would like to do it or hear it done, but it works for me, and Im all about sharing :)



I really can't believe NO ONE here buys their own parts and has a builder build their engine?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
 
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Doing this would be WAY more tedious than I am looking. I want to buy a complete or nearly complete motor. Source only a few accessories and have my installer do it along with A/C and drive it home in a month or less!


I would be leary of buying engines all crated up and shipped in I would have a lot of questions like
when it breaks who pulls it out
who pays shipping
who puts it back in
who says who's fault it was???????

And a MONTH or less, lol... A friend of mine just dropped of a dash to get rebuilt, and its 6 months...

I don't care who builds it or does the buying, but NO ONE buys your parts for free, even if its a crate motor, someone got paid to order them parts, pick them up, sign for the delivery, figure out what to buy, what ever. And they don't look for the best price, and if they do its not to benefit you...

I wish you luck, i hope you find something awesome that lasts forever, in my experience, not much gets done in a month when it comes to mopar restoration, unless you do it yourself, I thought you were installing the engine yourself... But you are in Texas, there should be tons of shops around there that work fast and cheap..
 
Jesus, this thread has took a turn. Engine builders that don't have to think? Wtf.. A real engine builder prefers to machine his own parts, or at least has the knowledge to do so. My worst nightmare is a box of **** a random machine shop has already machined that I have to assemble.
 
Hell no would I ever spend a bunch of money on parts and then hand them over to someone else to put together. I'm putting that **** together my damn self so I know those parts actually made it in the block. What fun is paying someone else to build it ??? That's just retarded in my book. If you are smart enough to know what parts to order and what parts do and don't work together you are damn smart enough to build it
 
Jesus, this thread has took a turn. Engine builders that don't have to think? Wtf.. A real engine builder prefers to machine his own parts, or at least has the knowledge to do so. My worst nightmare is a box of **** a random machine shop has already machined that I have to assemble.
Amen Brother, Amen!
 
Great article. It is from 2001 so I wonder if still the best build. Perhaps I will have my builder research the latest version of each part listed.

The other thing I noticed is how the 6 pack was ruled out for cost reasons - and they used another carburetor system with great results. So with my not being a 440 car originally I'm not sure having the additional 6 pack cost and complexity adds more value. The bang for buck ratio is low. Hence, I am thinking that a well built 440 with 450-500 HP will bring similar $ as a 6 pack engine that was added to a non-original 6 pack car.

That's an old build. A lot has changed as far as parts availability for big mopars. Anyone that would be qualified to build you an engine won't need a magazine article. You need to do some research and find a good builder. You have one commenting in this thread (IQ52) that has a shop and has done some very stout builds.
 
Jesus, this thread has took a turn. Engine builders that don't have to think? Wtf.. A real engine builder prefers to machine his own parts, or at least has the knowledge to do so. My worst nightmare is a box of **** a random machine shop has already machined that I have to assemble.
My guys real, real busy, lol... He appreciates me getting it done this way, and the shop that does the machine work is the shop he uses, he used to have a full machine shop did racing boats and drag cars and tons of circle track stuff, he says all the time "Best thing I ever did was stop taking the dirty parts in the front door" he swears not having the shot machines, and degreasing stuff all over the place made his engines better.

He doesn't even balance rotating assemblies anymore, he has a guy that does a great job for him, and when he sends me there, he gives me my builders price $225, and he balances a big block rotating assembly for me...

I like how I have it right now, I will be upset to have to do it any other way, I will text him once and a while and say "hey KB 237 pistons for $100 with the rings +30" and he says "Ill buy all you can get, same piston we put in the one you had me paint red" (which went in a 74 challenger with a 70 nose, solo that car on ebay, wish I kept it)....

IMO, and you guys can flame me if you like, BUILD a relationship with he guys that do work for you, I just left my chromers shop, he called me early last week to say he was slow and if I had anything I needed done, I dug up 5 rear bumpers, 3 sets of 2 super bee 70 bumpers, a few sets of rear bezels, some scoop bezels, 3 dodge emblems that go on the 70 grills, and a some ss trim I want straightened and polished.. This would easily be $4000 of chrome work, $2000 cash and I picked almost all of it up tonight, he has a bit more to do, but it was all over his shop so he wanted me to grab some of it now...

If someone can add pics or tell me how Ill post some its impressive amount of shiny stuff...


But this is an expensive hobby, don't flame a guy for wanting to get the most from his bucks, Im old the money doesn't come like it used to..
 
I could put a 440 together, I have done it and they hold up, I will put them together on occasion for friends and family, but if I am selling the car, I rather have the pro do it, I know its good, it comes tuned, and I get a receipt for the assembly all nice and neat with all the specs and everything about the motor, it adds more value to the car than the $1000 it costs me, no one giving joe jerkoff $48K for a car if he built the motor himself..
 
That's an old build. A lot has changed as far as parts availability for big mopars. Anyone that would be qualified to build you an engine won't need a magazine article. You need to do some research and find a good builder. You have one commenting in this thread (IQ52) that has a shop and has done some very stout builds.


One of the best I have seen, and I seen a lot is right here..
http://www.sd-concepts.com hes not far from me, real good guy, multiple dynos, more cars in magazines than just about anyone you could know, has a 1500hp or 2000hp 383 challenger, I forget the number but its nuts.. Makes his own heads, in his shop the other day he has a 800hp twin turbo dodge durango (newer one 2013 or something like that) with a 360 in it, a/c, power steering, it looks like it was built that way from the factory, guy is probably one of the smartest engine builder in the country, and one of the best fabricators you ever met...

Call him, his name is Scott, and see what he says about getting a motor in a month, lol... He may give you a price in a month, and then the motor will be ready March of 18'...


IMO, if I told a builder, I have all the parts and he said "I don't do it that way" I would move on, I may have explained it wrong, your builder needs to know your machine shop, around here there are not many machine shops with good builders, sorry to say, it sucks but they don't exist, machine shops around here are doing honda head resurfacing, diesel rebuilds, etc Performance shops are tough to find, we don't have a local race track...

So you get a machine shop that has all the machines and is very capable and a small builder who will put the time in and pay attention to your build... Not some machine shop where they are cutting blocks 20 feet from where another guy is file fitting your rings...
 
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My guys real, real busy, lol... He appreciates me getting it done this way, and the shop that does the machine work is the shop he uses, he used to have a full machine shop did racing boats and drag cars and tons of circle track stuff, he says all the time "Best thing I ever did was stop taking the dirty parts in the front door" he swears not having the shot machines, and degreasing stuff all over the place made his engines better.

He doesn't even balance rotating assemblies anymore, he has a guy that does a great job for him, and when he sends me there, he gives me my builders price $225, and he balances a big block rotating assembly for me...

I like how I have it right now, I will be upset to have to do it any other way, I will text him once and a while and say "hey KB 237 pistons for $100 with the rings +30" and he says "Ill buy all you can get, same piston we put in the one you had me paint red" (which went in a 74 challenger with a 70 nose, solo that car on ebay, wish I kept it)....

IMO, and you guys can flame me if you like, BUILD a relationship with he guys that do work for you, I just left my chromers shop, he called me early last week to say he was slow and if I had anything I needed done, I dug up 5 rear bumpers, 3 sets of 2 super bee 70 bumpers, a few sets of rear bezels, some scoop bezels, 3 dodge emblems that go on the 70 grills, and a some ss trim I want straightened and polished.. This would easily be $4000 of chrome work, $2000 cash and I picked almost all of it up tonight, he has a bit more to do, but it was all over his shop so he wanted me to grab some of it now...

If someone can add pics or tell me how Ill post some its impressive amount of shiny stuff...


But this is an expensive hobby, don't flame a guy for wanting to get the most from his bucks, Im old the money doesn't come like it used to..


You have a very unique relationship that you have cultivated over the years and are fortunate to have that kind of resource group. I do something like that but I've been into my Dad's tool box since I was two years old and have been building engines with my Dad since 1959 when I was 11.

The OP doesn't have the knowledge to get his own parts and coordinate the parties that would be involved to produce quality results. He has to get one qualified individual to do this for him, be that an engine builder, machinist or person experienced in the purchase of performance engines. You can't tell him to buy a bunch of parts and dump them off at the place of his choosing. He....don't......know....where....dat....is.
 
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I'm very close to having my friend who does 95% modern Hemi and LS swaps drop a complete Hellcat Hemi in it. I would keep it auto and on the tree for retro reasons. Then a nasty, cammed HC Hemi under hood!
 
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One of the best I have seen, and I seen a lot is right here..
http://www.sd-concepts.com hes not far from me, real good guy, multiple dynos, more cars in magazines than just about anyone you could know, has a 1500hp or 2000hp 383 challenger, I forget the number but its nuts.. Makes his own heads, in his shop the other day he has a 800hp twin turbo dodge durango (newer one 2013 or something like that) with a 360 in it, a/c, power steering, it looks like it was built that way from the factory, guy is probably one of the smartest engine builder in the country, and one of the best fabricators you ever met...

Call him, his name is Scott, and see what he says about getting a motor in a month, lol... He may give you a price in a month, and then the motor will be ready March of 18'...
You have a very unique relationship that you have cultivated over the years and are fortunate to have that kind of resource group. I do something like that but I've been into my Dad's tool box since I was two years old and have been building engines with my Dad since 1959 when I was 11.

The OP doesn't have the knowledge to get his own parts and coordinate the parties that would be involved to produce quality results. He has to get one qualified individual to do this for him, be that an engine builder, machinist or person experienced in the purchase of performance engines. You can't tell him to buy a bunch of parts and dump them off at the place of his choosing. He....don't......know....where....dat....is.


So you build motors, can you imagine him getting what he is looking for for what he wants to spend? I know it is different all around the country, but for the kind of money he is looking to spend for a motor handed to him, he is getting a late 70's block with a flat tappet cam and 906 heads with hardened seats...

The motor I outlined above, I have had built except I have mopar performance aluminum heads and intake, but I had a 440 stroker aluminum head, roller cam, rocker, motor built for under $6000, top to bottom, scored the intake and heads from craigslist, block was on moparts from a guy who joined to list some blocks left in his garage when he rented the house, it works out, and you can get some deals...


Now that I see the OP wants to drive the car in a month, I know all this conversation is for no reason, he needs to buy one off amazon and use his prime account, lol..
 
I'm very close to having my drop a complete Hellcat Hemi in it. I would keep it auto and on the tree for retro reasons. Then a nasty HC Hemi under hood!
On that note, lol... Good luck with the project, "she sounds hot"...
 
Let me clarify. First of all thank you all for the insight and feedback.

I was originally stuck on doing a 440 because I wanted to retain the vintage character of the car. However, after:

1) talking to a well known classsic muscle car dealer and confirming the coin that a modern Hemi swap brings and how over time it will keep value better than a 440 restomod due younger generations barely being into classics and if they are they don't want some of the challenges that go with them.

2) learning I can have a new Hemi motor with a cam and thunderous sound that will not only perform better but be way more efficient and also add more value than it's incremental costs over a 440 build. I do NOT need Hellcat power. But the cost difference between HC and N/A 6.1 isn't much for my source at least.

So I began to listen.

Final decision not made. But ironically although it's not simpler for me it kinda is. My close friend is a perineal modern Hemi tuner, fabricator, installer. And his shop is close to me as well. So the guy I trust most is right at home doing this sort of job, tuning it right and making sure the bay looks awesome.

Hence, I will do some research into some of these projects as well. Thank you all again for the excellent input.
 
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