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Single stage or base coat-clear coat ?

s5757s

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1964 Dodge Polara 2 dr hardtop. Basically going to be a cruise night car and occasional drag strip fun. Color: Plum Crazy Purple, black vinyl top, black interior.

Any opinions on single stage paint vs base coat - clear coat.

Not quite at that stage yet but wanting to make preperations.

Thanks,
 
1964 Dodge Polara 2 dr hardtop. Basically going to be a cruise night car and occasional drag strip fun. Color: Plum Crazy Purple, black vinyl top, black interior.

Any opinions on single stage paint vs base coat - clear coat.

Not quite at that stage yet but wanting to make preperations.

Thanks,
If it's non metallic then single stage!! without question. Clear will not last as long as pigment in the elements.
 
I bet plum crazy is going to have to be base / clear. Doesn't it have metallic flake in it?
 
1964 Dodge Polara 2 dr hardtop. Basically going to be a cruise night car and occasional drag strip fun. Color: Plum Crazy Purple, black vinyl top, black interior.

Any opinions on single stage paint vs base coat - clear coat.

Not quite at that stage yet but wanting to make preperations.

Thanks,
The reason clears were developed in the 1st place were to keep the metallics from oxidizing. Then in the 80's, mfg'ers. started clearing everything simply to cut their production costs. An okie dokie on consumers to think that somehow it was superior. The end result that 2 stage & 3 stage systems are easily 3 times as expensive for the refinisher, create 2 to 3 times as much labor, 2 to 3 times the chances for **** to **** up & a third the longevity of the finish ultimately.
Look at any new OEM finish exposed to elements under normal operating.....7 years the top surfaces turn white, start peeling regardless of which mfg'r.
 
Can you explain what you mean by clear not lasting in the elements?
The elements....heat, cold, acid rain, jet fuel soot etc, etc. Normal driving conditions for the average car owner who doesn't keep stuff garaged & baby clean all the time.
Look at any new car finish in these circumstances.....the clear is turning white & peeling on top surfaces within 7 years.
 
Gonna have to disagree there blade.
I've spent 45 years in straightening & refinishing,,,I've seen straight acrylic enamel single stage refineshes last 25 + years under normal use,,,i haven't seen any clear finish whether OEM or refinish last 10 years before top surfaces white out & peel unless car is constantly garaged,,,,,just look at all the cars today on road where the top surfaces have let go. My bug is going black single stage & I guarantee I can massage a Deeper lustre than massaging clear for far less money & far less work. Also not all clears are absolutely clear,,,,some are milky. But by all means disagree.....it's Your money, not mine.
 
I've spent 45 years in straightening & refinishing,,,I've seen straight acrylic enamel single stage refineshes last 25 + years under normal use,,,i haven't seen any clear finish whether OEM or refinish last 10 years before top surfaces white out & peel unless car is constantly garaged,,,,,just look at all the cars today on road where the top surfaces have let go. My bug is going black single stage & I guarantee I can massage a Deeper lustre than massaging clear for far less money & far less work. Also not all clears are absolutely clear,,,,some are milky. But by all means disagree.....it's Your money, not mine.

There are plenty of finishes,
Factory or otherwise that are not peeling after 7 to 10 years.

What you're saying is simply not true.

If you prefer a single stage to more accurately recreate an original finish, I can understand that.
Plenty of quality and durable clears on the market and they will last a lot longer than 7 or 10 years with routine maintenence. Actually, most folks don't even wash their cars these days and their paint isn't magically peeling off either.

Also, not all colors are available in single stage.

And to be clear, it's the OP's money as I'm not painting anything at preset. :lol:
 
There are plenty of finishes,
Factory or otherwise that are not peeling after 7 to 10 years.

What you're saying is simply not true.

If you prefer a single stage to more accurately recreate an original finish, I can understand that.
Plenty of quality and durable clears on the market and they will last a lot longer than 7 or 10 years with routine maintenence. Actually, most folks don't even wash their cars these days and their paint isn't magically peeling off either.

Also, not all colors are available in single stage.

And to be clear, it's the OP's money as I'm not painting anything at preset. :lol:
Most opaque colors are available in single stage. Clear is a plastic film....it's not paint or pigment. If I'm going to refinish in metallic, I use it, to keep metallics from prematurely chalking up & no risk of distorting metallic layout during cut & buff. But if it's opaque, I single stage....less money, less work, less stuff to go wrong.
To each His own.
 
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I am ignorant on this subject. This is straight enamel no clear shot back East in the 80's. Looked ok til I scraped the fence trying to park and protect the left side. If possible in California, I'd have it sprayed the same way as it appears to be consistant with the way these cars looked back in the day. I don't care for the over restored look of a super shiny clear coat on
a 60's car.
 
OK, so I have done may paint jobs, and I will say I like spraying 2 stage better, simply because its easier to fix your mistakes.

That being said, if you don't make a lot of mistakes, you don't have a lot to fix lol..

If you are spraying it yourself, I would want it to be done in the minimum amount of steps, so here is how I do cars that are not going to be show cars and don't get me wrong, if you do it right, you can lay ss as good as any base clear, and I can get more shine out of single stage than a lot of cars I see with 2 stage, especially after a few years...
Another thing to keep in mind is touch ups, I would rather touch up 2 stage than single, BUT single is harder to damage..

OK, so buy your self some single stage Urethane paint, don't get too hung up on brand I did a protruding challenger with summit up319 (looks plum crazy to me, with a bit of metallic in it) and I think it was $110 for the activator and a gallon of paint.

but heres the key to this, to keep it simple do yourself a favor and grab a gallon of clausen "all u need" primer, stuff is magical..

So this is what I do-
Sand the car down and fix all body work, leave bare metal, lead, filler, etc bare and don't bother with any glaze on your body work, save that step, I used to use putty over all my filler and board sand my balls off, no more.. Also no more washing it down with reducer, wax grease remover, thinner, etc. Just soapy water..

Next put a big nozzle in your gun and spray the entire car with the clausen, I coat it nice and thick, try to keep it even, pretty easy to do since it goes on uniform and you can see where you have been and how strong you have been there..

Now board sand it out, start at 180 go up to 220, don't burn though just big board it cross hatching to get everything straight and take out any waves..

Now I use sem guide coat (I know some guys use the gun, I use rattle can, because I hate cleaning guns) and block it out with 400, then 600.. Your guide coat will tell all..

After that done, wash it down with soap and water, dry it, tack cloth the **** out of it, and lay the color...

When I tell you this saves me 4 days lol, I used to bust my balls, doing all the body, work then blocking each spot, then filler, then block, then filler, then block, then putty, then block , then glaze, the sand, then glaze then sand, the etching/ sealer / 2K / sand, sand, sand, sand, guide, sand, guide, sand....
screw that noise, I get better results with less time and a lot less money..

Simple, body work (flat and smooth but don't worry about pin holes), then all u need, then block it, guide coat, block it, wash it , paint it...

I am doing a truck for a friend, he couldn't believe the paint and materials was $350, lol... Another friend of mine about a year ago, bought a develbiss finish line gun, a da, set of blocks, some paper, primer, filler, paint, all for under $1000, did the job outside in his driveway, you would call him a liar if you seen it!!! he never held an hvlp gun in his life and it came super nice, no BS, looks like I did it in the booth...

one more note, use rage body filler stuff is amazing.
 
Gonna have to disagree there blade.
I know where bald sis coming from, I think this will depend on what the car has been through, but I had a white sierra that was about 8 years old and the hood was peeling that was a 2001 so buy 09 it was pealing..
My neighbor has a blue toyota and the roof is pealing, that car is a 2005-2007 (guessing), I notice cars with dull coatings around here, BUT WHO KEEPS A CAR for 10 years anymore, thats on its third owner by then, lol..

Single stage is no miracle cure, it sucks to spray a touchup afterwards, where if its 2 stage I can blend it all in and you won't be able to tell, with single stage, I would rather paint the entire side of the car rather than a panel. Someone doing a paint job at home, nothing crazy, I vote ss urethane (not enamel, not that there is anything wrong with it, but ime urethane wears like iron)...
 
I've shot quite a bit of acrylic urethane single stage. No doubt, it's great stuff for solid colors.
That said, saying that clear isn't even "paint", it's "plastic" and ALL base / clear will peel is absolute nonsense. There are 10's of thousands of vehicles on the road that prove otherwise.

if I was painting an old tractor or pickup truck, I'd consider acrylic enamel.

For "plum crazy", base / clear is the way to go.
 
This Studebaker Hawk was painted 35 years ago with PPG Ditzler Delstar acrylic enamel.....it has been sitting outside on stands for well over 10 years in the desert here in so cal without being touched. No checking, not even much chalk from oxidization. I can run a polisher with wool pad, & light compound, followed by foam pad & very sparing light compound & glaze mix on it & bring every bit of can color back out of it. Paint will oxidize but not peel or crack for a very long time. Oxidization in pigment paint starts from top & works down.....once the clear, which IS plastic film, succumbs to UV, it penetrates all the way through, starting by milking it out, then eventually crazes or fractures until it starts to flake & peel. The hood is most often the first panel to knuckle under because not only the heat & UV from top, but also being baked from underneath by engine heat.

IMG_20160506_122346.jpg
 
I have urathane single stage on my 64 Dodge. Solid red, no metalic. I obtained the look I want, no over shiney base-coat- clearcoat. Problem with urathane is, it is so hard, it's difficult to color sand and buff. Takes a lot of time. My next paint job will be B5 metallic blue. I have seen BB-CC that looked more like single stage without that big slabs of shine. What has been done to achieve that?
 
There is a book called titled
Making It Right: Why Your Car Payments Are Lasting Longer Than Your Factory Paint Job : Basic Guide
By Stephen N. Gaiski
Zestar Corporation
Covers the spectrum of auto mfg'rs. Graph charts, showing date of car new to date of beginning of finish failure. Shows Mercedes clear coat failures in as little as FIVE years.
I just dug this up on the web and viewed some samplings......I already am well familiar with problem by rote & having had to deal with it numerous times in past.
Do the search & research the charts....do a random search engine also,. just entering
Clear Coat Failures....read articles, search images as well.
 
I have urathane single stage on my 64 Dodge. Solid red, no metalic. I obtained the look I want, no over shiney base-coat- clearcoat. Problem with urathane is, it is so hard, it's difficult to color sand and buff. Takes a lot of time. My next paint job will be B5 metallic blue. I have seen BB-CC that looked more like single stage without that big slabs of shine. What has been done to achieve that?
A freshly applied topcoat, whether single stage or clear, can be dulled by going reducer rich, or adding sparing amounts of flattening agent. The difference in shine attainable between clear & single stage in my bible is a myth....it depends on the amount of reduction & the technique in application....I can get a single just as glossy as clear whether it is a straight gun shoot or by color sand & polish.
IF You are going to go metallic, then You Should go with 2 stage to protect the metallics & insure no distortion of metallic layout in sanding & polishing.
As far as difficulty of hardness of sanding & buffing single stage urethane..... i say the harder the better for longevity. The softer **** is going give up sooner, more shrinkage too. IMO.
All the Best MO.
 
I like single stage. I'm not a fan of clear coat paint especially on vintage cars. SINGLE Stage Has That richness That you don't get with 2 stage paint
 
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