What front suspension to use on 1967 Satellite

Torkmnstr said:

I'm gonna run the no drop spindles and just tweak with the coils. Carl is cool though, he said if it's not enough just send them back and he will get out the 2" drop ones.

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Torkmnstr said:

Yea I'm going to run 18's, so that will take up a good portion of the opening too.

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Max440 said:

how long to get it,

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dukeboy_318 said:

Varies, he builds each one as an order comes in, so it depends on how many are placed when you do yours, my front kit took I think 4 weeks then another to powder coat, the rear kit took longer because I ordered it right after Mopar Nats and Carl was slammed with orders after the Nats. Both are exceptional quality. I went power rack, sway bar and 2 inch drop spindles.

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Max440 said:

yeah I am thinking the same thing - he quoted me 4200 - with 11" brakes not wilwood

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Max440 said:

yeah I am thinking the same thing - he quoted me 4200 - with 11" brakes not wilwood

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Kern Dog said:

Holy crap, that is a bunch of money!

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1. Let me start off by saying a few things that may impact the way you value these opinions. I have no formal training in anything automotive related. All of my opinions are based on observations and experiences. I have read nearly every tech article written by Mopar Action magazines guru, Rick Ehrenberg. While I do not agree 100% with everything he says, in most cases he presents a well scienced arguement to support his opinions. He is not into aftermarket parts that are based on appearances. He is heavily biased towards durability and reliability. He has stated several times his opinions against the use of the non adjustable "Green" brand axle bearings for them being a poor replacemen tfor the excellent Timken tapered roller bearings. He has also expressed a lack of faith in any and all of the aftermarket front suspension kits that eliminate the torsion bars.
   I have been wrenching on these cars since 1982. Although I am a Carpenter by trade, I just love to tinker with these old cars. My first car was a 69 Dart. I wanted a 68-70 Charger but never tried that hard to find one. From 1984 to 1993 I didn't own any Mopars, I was a Chevy guy. I still thought of the day when I'd own a Charger. While being this Chevy guy, I thought of how if I did get one, I'd gut the stock torsion bar stuff and somehow graft in a Camaro style front subframe.
   I finally bought a Charger in 2000. I looked at the suspension and thought seriously about these radical modifications. I read from Rick E and a California Bay Area suspension guru Tom Condran. In their articles and books, I began to see the benefits from Ricks and Toms observations.
   The Mopar design really is a great example of engineering. The unit-body design is as well. The body serves as sheet metal reinforcements for the whole car with no weight penalty. All frame members are designed to share the suspension and steering loads. Each part was built to work together, no single member was designed to carry everything. The frame rails were designed to be strong enough to support the car without being too heavy. The torsion bar design allowed the suspension and steering loads to be spread out from the K member back to the lateral torsion bar anchor/crossmember. The design allowed weight to be placed lower and further to the rear as compared to Ford or GM cars of the same size. The lower control arm with strut rod made for stable suspension action with minimal deflection. The steering assembly was rear mounted to move weight rearward and to save weight and cost of a longer steering column.
   Rick Ehrenberg ran a stock body 69 Valiant against some impressive cars in several "One Lap of America" race events and did quite well. He wrote several articles on the car that he named "The Green Brick". These articles were important to me and set my course where I am now. His theme of stock based suspensions with a few improvements appealed to both my CHEAP style and my appreciation for engineering.
   In 2002, I took my 70 Charger and swapped in my first 440. I knew the stock 318 spec torsion bars would be too small so I ordered a set of 1.0 torsion bars and a set of KYB shocks. I wanted a bigger front sway bar but being the junkyard dog that I've been, I searched through the junkyards and found a bar that matched the contours of the stock 70-72 B body sway bar. This one came from a 73-87 Chevy 1 ton 2wd truck. All I had to do was shorten the ends and drill holes. For $40 I had a solid 1 1/4" front sway bar that fit. I rigged a rear sway bar from a Ford truck.
   For 4 years, the combo was pretty good. The ride seemed a bit stiff but it handled well on smooth roads. In 2006 I swapped in Addco front and rear sway bars, 1 1/8" front, 7/8" rear. I also changed the leafs to Mopar Performance 440/Hemi springs. The car was a little light in the rear on hard turns. It wanted to hang the tail out on sudden turns but the body roll was very slight. I was more concerned with some engine problems and home projects so I put the suspension on the back burner for awhile. In 2012 I made my own subframe connectors and torque boxes. They were welded in. The car handled about the same but it felt more solid on bumpy roads. It was as if the stiffer uni-body was now allowing the suspension to work rather than letting the car body deflect and absorb the bumps.
   In 2015 I made a few more changes that are still in place today. I took some tips from books that I have read. To reduce OVERsteer, you can increase roll stiffness in the front or reduce the stiffness in the back. I did both.
   I put in 1.15 torsion bars to add stiffness to the front. The 1 1/8" Addco front bar was removed and the GM 1 1/4" bar was put back in. I fitted an 82 Imperial 11/16" rear sway barto soften the rear. I also ditched the KYB shocks and went with Bilstein shocks. Now the car still stays flat in the turns but does so without the *** end wanting to get through the corner first. I still have urethane bushings in the strut rods and sway bar. The lower control arm bushings are rubber. The upper control arm bushings are the Moog K-7103 rubber that have offset centers to allow a greater range of adjustment for alignment.
   The tires are 275-40-18 front, 295-45-18 rear Nitto NT-01 with a 200 treadwear, far softer and stickier than most street tires.
   Steering box in a Firm Feel Stage 3 with he Fast Ratio idler and pitman arms. This puts the wheel at 2 3/4 turns from lock to lock, down from 3 1/2 stock. This makes the effort in the steering heavier and more deliberate. You dont get to steer the car with one finger!
   I love the way the car handles. It feels lighter in the turns than my 2015 Challenger R/T that is actually a nice handling car. The Charger weighs a shade over 4000 lbs as compared to the Challenger at 4200.
   The common theme I keep hearing from the guys that buy the aftermarket front suspensions is LIGHTER WEIGHT...Better EXHAUST CLEARANCE ! Lighter? At what cost? If you compare the stock setup with power steering against an aftermarket kit with a manual steering rack, then sure...NO arguement there. It might be even lighter manual steering versus manual....BUT the suspension load is now fully concentrated on frame rails that were NOT designed to carry all the weight. Remember, the beefy K member and torsion bar crossmember spread out the load in stock form. Some kits had lower control arms that look pretty but probably do not have the durability of the OEM stuff. If the car is driven easily and not on rough roads, you will probably be fine. If the goal is for better road race and autocross performance, take note that the respected Rick Ehrenberg, Tom Condran and Andy Finkbeiner have said that there is no clear benefit of these kits for race duty. Now...Exhaust clearance. Yes, with the stock rear steer stuff and torsion bars gone, there is a bunch of room there! To get it, you had to spend at least $5000. A well rebuilt stock suspension and steering will cost around half of that. TTI and Dougs make great headers that fit cars with torsion bars for $800 or less. These are my opinions but I have not just come to them on my own. I followed some trusted professionals to feel this way.

Kern Dog said:

1. Let me start off by saying a few things that may impact the way you value these opinions. I have no formal training in anything automotive related. All of my opinions are based on observations and experiences. I have read nearly every tech article written by Mopar Action magazines guru, Rick Ehrenberg. While I do not agree 100% with everything he says, in most cases he presents a well scienced arguement to support his opinions. He is not into aftermarket parts that are based on appearances. He is heavily biased towards durability and reliability. He has stated several times his opinions against the use of the non adjustable "Green" brand axle bearings for them being a poor replacemen tfor the excellent Timken tapered roller bearings. He has also expressed a lack of faith in any and all of the aftermarket front suspension kits that eliminate the torsion bars.
   I have been wrenching on these cars since 1982. Although I am a Carpenter by trade, I just love to tinker with these old cars. My first car was a 69 Dart. I wanted a 68-70 Charger but never tried that hard to find one. From 1984 to 1993 I didn't own any Mopars, I was a Chevy guy. I still thought of the day when I'd own a Charger. While being this Chevy guy, I thought of how if I did get one, I'd gut the stock torsion bar stuff and somehow graft in a Camaro style front subframe.
   I finally bought a Charger in 2000. I looked at the suspension and thought seriously about these radical modifications. I read from Rick E and a California Bay Area suspension guru Tom Condran. In their articles and books, I began to see the benefits from Ricks and Toms observations.
   The Mopar design really is a great example of engineering. The unit-body design is as well. The body serves as sheet metal reinforcements for the whole car with no weight penalty. All frame members are designed to share the suspension and steering loads. Each part was built to work together, no single member was designed to carry everything. The frame rails were designed to be strong enough to support the car without being too heavy. The torsion bar design allowed the suspension and steering loads to be spread out from the K member back to the lateral torsion bar anchor/crossmember. The design allowed weight to be placed lower and further to the rear as compared to Ford or GM cars of the same size. The lower control arm with strut rod made for stable suspension action with minimal deflection. The steering assembly was rear mounted to move weight rearward and to save weight and cost of a longer steering column.
   Rick Ehrenberg ran a stock body 69 Valiant against some impressive cars in several "One Lap of America" race events and did quite well. He wrote several articles on the car that he named "The Green Brick". These articles were important to me and set my course where I am now. His theme of stock based suspensions with a few improvements appealed to both my CHEAP style and my appreciation for engineering.
   In 2002, I took my 70 Charger and swapped in my first 440. I knew the stock 318 spec torsion bars would be too small so I ordered a set of 1.0 torsion bars and a set of KYB shocks. I wanted a bigger front sway bar but being the junkyard dog that I've been, I searched through the junkyards and found a bar that matched the contours of the stock 70-72 B body sway bar. This one came from a 73-87 Chevy 1 ton 2wd truck. All I had to do was shorten the ends and drill holes. For $40 I had a solid 1 1/4" front sway bar that fit. I rigged a rear sway bar from a Ford truck.
   For 4 years, the combo was pretty good. The ride seemed a bit stiff but it handled well on smooth roads. In 2006 I swapped in Addco front and rear sway bars, 1 1/8" front, 7/8" rear. I also changed the leafs to Mopar Performance 440/Hemi springs. The car was a little light in the rear on hard turns. It wanted to hang the tail out on sudden turns but the body roll was very slight. I was more concerned with some engine problems and home projects so I put the suspension on the back burner for awhile. In 2012 I made my own subframe connectors and torque boxes. They were welded in. The car handled about the same but it felt more solid on bumpy roads. It was as if the stiffer uni-body was now allowing the suspension to work rather than letting the car body deflect and absorb the bumps.
   In 2015 I made a few more changes that are still in place today. I took some tips from books that I have read. To reduce OVERsteer, you can increase roll stiffness in the front or reduce the stiffness in the back. I did both.
   I put in 1.15 torsion bars to add stiffness to the front. The 1 1/8" Addco front bar was removed and the GM 1 1/4" bar was put back in. I fitted an 82 Imperial 11/16" rear sway barto soften the rear. I also ditched the KYB shocks and went with Bilstein shocks. Now the car still stays flat in the turns but does so without the *** end wanting to get through the corner first. I still have urethane bushings in the strut rods and sway bar. The lower control arm bushings are rubber. The upper control arm bushings are the Moog K-7103 rubber that have offset centers to allow a greater range of adjustment for alignment.
   The tires are 275-40-18 front, 295-45-18 rear Nitto NT-01 with a 200 treadwear, far softer and stickier than most street tires.
   Steering box in a Firm Feel Stage 3 with he Fast Ratio idler and pitman arms. This puts the wheel at 2 3/4 turns from lock to lock, down from 3 1/2 stock. This makes the effort in the steering heavier and more deliberate. You dont get to steer the car with one finger!
   I love the way the car handles. It feels lighter in the turns than my 2015 Challenger R/T that is actually a nice handling car. The Charger weighs a shade over 4000 lbs as compared to the Challenger at 4200.
   The common theme I keep hearing from the guys that buy the aftermarket front suspensions is LIGHTER WEIGHT...Better EXHAUST CLEARANCE ! Lighter? At what cost? If you compare the stock setup with power steering against an aftermarket kit with a manual steering rack, then sure...NO arguement there. It might be even lighter manual steering versus manual....BUT the suspension load is now fully concentrated on frame rails that were NOT designed to carry all the weight. Remember, the beefy K member and torsion bar crossmember spread out the load in stock form. Some kits had lower control arms that look pretty but probably do not have the durability of the OEM stuff. If the car is driven easily and not on rough roads, you will probably be fine. If the goal is for better road race and autocross performance, take note that the respected Rick Ehrenberg, Tom Condran and Andy Finkbeiner have said that there is no clear benefit of these kits for race duty. Now...Exhaust clearance. Yes, with the stock rear steer stuff and torsion bars gone, there is a bunch of room there! To get it, you had to spend at least $5000. A well rebuilt stock suspension and steering will cost around half of that. TTI and Dougs make great headers that fit cars with torsion bars for $800 or less. These are my opinions but I have not just come to them on my own. I followed some trusted professionals to feel this way.

Click to expand...

Kern Dog said:

1. Let me start off by saying a few things that may impact the way you value these opinions. I have no formal training in anything automotive related. All of my opinions are based on observations and experiences. I have read nearly every tech article written by Mopar Action magazines guru, Rick Ehrenberg. While I do not agree 100% with everything he says, in most cases he presents a well scienced arguement to support his opinions. He is not into aftermarket parts that are based on appearances. He is heavily biased towards durability and reliability. He has stated several times his opinions against the use of the non adjustable "Green" brand axle bearings for them being a poor replacemen tfor the excellent Timken tapered roller bearings. He has also expressed a lack of faith in any and all of the aftermarket front suspension kits that eliminate the torsion bars.
   I have been wrenching on these cars since 1982. Although I am a Carpenter by trade, I just love to tinker with these old cars. My first car was a 69 Dart. I wanted a 68-70 Charger but never tried that hard to find one. From 1984 to 1993 I didn't own any Mopars, I was a Chevy guy. I still thought of the day when I'd own a Charger. While being this Chevy guy, I thought of how if I did get one, I'd gut the stock torsion bar stuff and somehow graft in a Camaro style front subframe.
   I finally bought a Charger in 2000. I looked at the suspension and thought seriously about these radical modifications. I read from Rick E and a California Bay Area suspension guru Tom Condran. In their articles and books, I began to see the benefits from Ricks and Toms observations.
   The Mopar design really is a great example of engineering. The unit-body design is as well. The body serves as sheet metal reinforcements for the whole car with no weight penalty. All frame members are designed to share the suspension and steering loads. Each part was built to work together, no single member was designed to carry everything. The frame rails were designed to be strong enough to support the car without being too heavy. The torsion bar design allowed the suspension and steering loads to be spread out from the K member back to the lateral torsion bar anchor/crossmember. The design allowed weight to be placed lower and further to the rear as compared to Ford or GM cars of the same size. The lower control arm with strut rod made for stable suspension action with minimal deflection. The steering assembly was rear mounted to move weight rearward and to save weight and cost of a longer steering column.
   Rick Ehrenberg ran a stock body 69 Valiant against some impressive cars in several "One Lap of America" race events and did quite well. He wrote several articles on the car that he named "The Green Brick". These articles were important to me and set my course where I am now. His theme of stock based suspensions with a few improvements appealed to both my CHEAP style and my appreciation for engineering.
   In 2002, I took my 70 Charger and swapped in my first 440. I knew the stock 318 spec torsion bars would be too small so I ordered a set of 1.0 torsion bars and a set of KYB shocks. I wanted a bigger front sway bar but being the junkyard dog that I've been, I searched through the junkyards and found a bar that matched the contours of the stock 70-72 B body sway bar. This one came from a 73-87 Chevy 1 ton 2wd truck. All I had to do was shorten the ends and drill holes. For $40 I had a solid 1 1/4" front sway bar that fit. I rigged a rear sway bar from a Ford truck.
   For 4 years, the combo was pretty good. The ride seemed a bit stiff but it handled well on smooth roads. In 2006 I swapped in Addco front and rear sway bars, 1 1/8" front, 7/8" rear. I also changed the leafs to Mopar Performance 440/Hemi springs. The car was a little light in the rear on hard turns. It wanted to hang the tail out on sudden turns but the body roll was very slight. I was more concerned with some engine problems and home projects so I put the suspension on the back burner for awhile. In 2012 I made my own subframe connectors and torque boxes. They were welded in. The car handled about the same but it felt more solid on bumpy roads. It was as if the stiffer uni-body was now allowing the suspension to work rather than letting the car body deflect and absorb the bumps.
   In 2015 I made a few more changes that are still in place today. I took some tips from books that I have read. To reduce OVERsteer, you can increase roll stiffness in the front or reduce the stiffness in the back. I did both.
   I put in 1.15 torsion bars to add stiffness to the front. The 1 1/8" Addco front bar was removed and the GM 1 1/4" bar was put back in. I fitted an 82 Imperial 11/16" rear sway barto soften the rear. I also ditched the KYB shocks and went with Bilstein shocks. Now the car still stays flat in the turns but does so without the *** end wanting to get through the corner first. I still have urethane bushings in the strut rods and sway bar. The lower control arm bushings are rubber. The upper control arm bushings are the Moog K-7103 rubber that have offset centers to allow a greater range of adjustment for alignment.
   The tires are 275-40-18 front, 295-45-18 rear Nitto NT-01 with a 200 treadwear, far softer and stickier than most street tires.
   Steering box in a Firm Feel Stage 3 with he Fast Ratio idler and pitman arms. This puts the wheel at 2 3/4 turns from lock to lock, down from 3 1/2 stock. This makes the effort in the steering heavier and more deliberate. You dont get to steer the car with one finger!
   I love the way the car handles. It feels lighter in the turns than my 2015 Challenger R/T that is actually a nice handling car. The Charger weighs a shade over 4000 lbs as compared to the Challenger at 4200.
   The common theme I keep hearing from the guys that buy the aftermarket front suspensions is LIGHTER WEIGHT...Better EXHAUST CLEARANCE ! Lighter? At what cost? If you compare the stock setup with power steering against an aftermarket kit with a manual steering rack, then sure...NO arguement there. It might be even lighter manual steering versus manual....BUT the suspension load is now fully concentrated on frame rails that were NOT designed to carry all the weight. Remember, the beefy K member and torsion bar crossmember spread out the load in stock form. Some kits had lower control arms that look pretty but probably do not have the durability of the OEM stuff. If the car is driven easily and not on rough roads, you will probably be fine. If the goal is for better road race and autocross performance, take note that the respected Rick Ehrenberg, Tom Condran and Andy Finkbeiner have said that there is no clear benefit of these kits for race duty. Now...Exhaust clearance. Yes, with the stock rear steer stuff and torsion bars gone, there is a bunch of room there! To get it, you had to spend at least $5000. A well rebuilt stock suspension and steering will cost around half of that. TTI and Dougs make great headers that fit cars with torsion bars for $800 or less. These are my opinions but I have not just come to them on my own. I followed some trusted professionals to feel this way.

Excellent piece of information - make allot of sense. I am surely thinking on what you have written. Great perspective!!

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