413 build for my 64 Polara Convertible

Glenwood · Apr 8, 2017

So I've been repairing/restoring my 64 Polara in the member's projects section for the past 1.5 years. I'm at the stage where I want to start putting the engine together.
http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/can-of-rusty-worms.104526/

I'm aware that a 440 would be cheaper and make more power/$; however, I had this block and chose to go down this path. The goal is to aim for about 400-450 HP.

This is a 1973 413, likely from a RV as it has extra water passages. First I stripped the block which had deep dish pistons, a forged crank and LY rods.

The cylinders looked to be in relatively good shape and the hash marks were still visible, with no edge to ream at the top. This tells me it probably had low miles on it.

mr. b · Apr 8, 2017

looks pretty good should be a good build

Glenwood · Apr 8, 2017

The wrist pins were pressed out with a ball joint press as I hadn't bought a hydraulic press yet. (I found a used 20Ton cheap recently).
The rods journals were measured and found to be in good shape.

Glenwood · Apr 8, 2017

The block was sent to For Hemis Only which is 25 minutes from me. A quick sonic check revealed thick cylinder walls leaving lots of safe room to bore out. To be sure though, Tim wanted to have the inside of the block blasted as rust can throw the readings off.
The block was blasted and rechecked for thickness and cracks. All is good! Time said this block was in exception condition and we could get away with just honing the cylinders.
Since custom pistons would likely be necessary, we decided to bore it out to 4.25 (426 spec) with lots of room to spare and align hone the main journals.
ARP main studs were installed and the block was decked lightly to true it up. Tim said the top hardly needed machining. With everything squared up and straight, pistons were ordered.

SublimeSixpack · Apr 8, 2017

Good project.

Glenwood · Apr 8, 2017

Tim is not a fan of old technology with regards to rods & pistons. He had a set of new Eagle H-beam rods with floating pins and offered them for not much more than the cost of resizing the LY rods and ARP bolts installed, so i bought them and sold the LYs.

Glenwood · Apr 8, 2017

The pistons we ordered are from Carrillo.

Glenwood · Apr 8, 2017

The crank was then checked for cracks and ground/polished to -.010.

dieseldazzle · Apr 8, 2017

Lovely! What cylinder head choice?

Glenwood · Apr 8, 2017

So this is where I'm at today and am about to start assembly. I've never gone this deep into an engine before but want to learn, much like my adventures with welding and sheet metal work. I could use some pointers along the way and will have many questions so I'm counting on you guys!

Cam, heads, etc., have yet to be determined. I'm focusing on the short block for now which I think I have a good foundation to start with.
I've read & reread plenty on this subject so here's my thoughts on first steps...

check all oil passages to be sure they are clear
chase all of the threaded opening with a bottoming tap to be sure they are clean and empty of debris
clean, clean, clean the block and cylinders with ATF until the paper towel is free of blackening
clean the crank with lacquer thinner for a plastigage check
insert the main bearings
lay the crank in carefully without turning to check the crank/bearing clearance and remove (ARP lube on these studs?)
Install the crank. (Assembly lube on the main and rod bearings?)
oil the cylinders and start prepping/measuring the rings for filing, I bought a ring filer
install rings on the pistons
Install rods/wrist pins onto pistons (do the wrist pins need assembly lube or just 10W30 for now?)
Install rod bearings (the bearing notches point the outside of the block?)
Soak the pistons in oil although I've read that some guys just spray WD40. Insert the pistons/rods. (rods chamfered edges towards the crank counter weights?)

Should the rod bearing also be checked with plastigage?
Do the rod to rod as well as rod to crack gaps have a spec to be checked before torquing?

I have arp assembly lube for the rod bolts. Is this to be used for the main studs, head bolts, intake bolts etc?

miller · Apr 9, 2017

Glenwood said:
insert the main bearings

lay the crank in carefully without turning to check the crank/bearing clearance and remove (ARP lube on these studs?)

Install the crank. (Assembly lube on the main and rod bearings?)

Suppose I can toss my two cents worth...sure there will be yehs and nays.
I've got my own ways, so just bare with me. Not a fan of plastigage, but if it's all you have.
By habit, I've always block-painted my blocks, using Rustoleum primer. But, it's just preference. Even with a coat of WD40 on the inside of the block, will help hold down the rust.
Assuming by #6, you mean checking crank endplay. Yes, a must! Also be sure to check rod endplay, when you get that far. #7, positively! Use Lubriplate assembly. On the bearings themselves, I put a very light wipe on the outer surface (to the caps). Just enough to say it's not bone dry.
Gapping your rings...suggest dry fit in sets, for each cylinder, by hand. Then, keep the set together, to only go into that hole. That way, you will know exactly what you have. When you cut the rings for gap, be sure to check each end, for any burrs, and dress them with a small fine file.
Of course, check all the bearings/inserts for clearance!!!

Yup, I'm one of those that, after mounting/ringing the pistons, I 'dip' the piston in a can of 30w. Drain the excess, and install.

miller · Apr 9, 2017

Couple things...while my heads still straight.
Your tapping all the bolt holes. Be sure not to 'cut' any metal. All you want is to clear out the carbon. Rust on/in the block. If there is any, I have used rotary brushes, most times going over all the cast surfaces, inside and out, until I get bare metal. But, I AM extreme.

Just a thought on those pistons, since they use bolts, instead of bolts and nuts. Might take a scrap bolt, cut the head off, and cut a screwdriver slot into that end. I simply use the end of the 'upper' bolt, and slip a length of rubber hose over it. With the cut-off bolt, same thing can be done. When you install the piston/rod into each hole, the rubber hose will help guide that end of the rod over the crank journal. Want to not nick the journal, and the hose gives the 'helper' you'll need, to guide the rod end into place.
Then, simply matter to remove the bolt/hose, and put the cap on.

Glenwood · Apr 9, 2017

Thanks for the tips Miller! I hadn't thought about the rods having bolts instead of studs...good idea about using a couple of studs with hose.

Didn't get too much done yesterday. Since the car is back on its wheels, I needed to torque down the LCA, K-frame & struts. I trimmed the k-frame a bit for the oil pan and installed the steering box.

I laid everything out. There isn't any info to tell which are the top rings & 2nd rings, so a quick search on google tells me the part numbers starting with #1 is the top ring and #2 is the second. The oil rings are obvious, even to me!

Glenwood · Apr 9, 2017

Using a gun cleaning kit and a pipe cleaner, I checked all of the oil passages. i found one cam bearing installed by FHO to be misaligned slightly, but after lots of reading last night, it doesn't seem like a big deal.

Glenwood · Apr 9, 2017

Before I sent the block out last year, I chased all of the threads with bottoming taps. Doing it again was a good idea and there were a few that would only thread 3/4 of the way easily. I was careful not to cut the threads. All threaded holes were done. The rear seal cap holes were a bit tough to get at since they are so close to the #5 main cap. I used an 8-point socket & extension to turn those.

Crud in one of the head bolt holes. It took a little more effort to clean a few like this out but it wasn't excessive like cutting metal threads.

Once done, I blew out the holes with air and a spritz of WD40. The dinner bell rang so that was all for yesterday.

Glenwood · Apr 9, 2017

With regards to the rear main seal, I have a felpro rubber seal but I've read guys are recommending the use of vitron. Is there really a big difference between the two? I cannot find vitron up here and to order them from the USA means this seal will cost over $100 CAD with shipping. A lot more than $35 CAD for a Felpro one here.

Glenwood · Apr 9, 2017

miller said:
Suppose I can toss my two cents worth...sure there will be yehs and nays.
I've got my own ways, so just bare with me. Not a fan of plastigage, but if it's all you have.
By habit, I've always block-painted my blocks, using Rustoleum primer. But, it's just preference. Even with a coat of WD40 on the inside of the block, will help hold down the rust.
Assuming by #6, you mean checking crank endplay. Yes, a must! Also be sure to check rod endplay, when you get that far. #7, positively! Use Lubriplate assembly. On the bearings themselves, I put a very light wipe on the outer surface (to the caps). Just enough to say it's not bone dry.
Gapping your rings...suggest dry fit in sets, for each cylinder, by hand. Then, keep the set together, to only go into that hole. That way, you will know exactly what you have. When you cut the rings for gap, be sure to check each end, for any burrs, and dress them with a small fine file.
Of course, check all the bearings/inserts for clearance!!!

Yup, I'm one of those that, after mounting/ringing the pistons, I 'dip' the piston in a can of 30w. Drain the excess, and install.

So Miller, are you saying to put assembly lube (I have Ams Oil assembly lube) on the back side of each bearing half before inserting into the block & caps? Then lube on top of the bearing surface and crank before installing?

Glenwood · Apr 9, 2017

I see that many of you guys prefer to mic the crank and check journals with a dial bore indicator as opposed to plastigage. I assume then that the bore of the block journal, less the crank journal dia. + the bearing thicknessx2 should indicate the clearance? I think I have a large enough micrometer and dial bore indicator so I'll try this and record the findings.

miller · Apr 9, 2017

Glenwood said:
So Miller, are you saying to put assembly lube (I have Ams Oil assembly lube) on the back side of each bearing half before inserting into the block & caps?

Yes. But, only a very light film...very light. I've always done that, never 'spun' a bearing. Though, understand I go overboard on my bearings/inserts, as far as fit, and clearances. I own my micrometers, use 'em to the fullest. One important thing I've always done, is check for bearing 'pinch'...or, that's how I call it. It's what reduces changes of spun bearings, besides having good clearance.
Example...a rod/cap/inserts...I measure the thickness of the bearing halves, and with the hole size, add the thickness x2 (one for each half). With that number, and the journal size, subtract, and there's the clearance. For the 'pinch', I install both inserts, put the cap on the rod, and 'snug' the fasteners down. Holding the rod in the light, I look for a slight gap, between the rod and cap, with the inserts in place. If I have a gap, and less than .001, it's good. When the rods get mounted, and torqued down, the two mating edges of the bearing shells are 'crushed' (not really), but fully seat the bearings into place. Much less chance of spinning in that bore.

BTW...all looks real good! Yes, the rear main seals are a crap shoot. It works, or it don't.

miller · Apr 9, 2017

Glenwood said:
I assume then that the bore of the block journal, less the crank journal dia. + the bearing thicknessx2 should indicate the clearance?

Yes, sir. Want those bearing surfaces in good shape.
I use a 1" mic, with a .100 ball adapter on one side. The ball goes to the inner surface of the bearing.

413 build for my 64 Polara Convertible

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