Electrical: 67 Coronet R/T, dies when key is released to run postion.

Hello everyone. Admittedly, I don't have a ton of experience or electrical knowledge, but what I am about to describe is a new one for me. There may be multiple issues. Sorry...this is long.

Background: 1967 Coronet R/T, original 440 engine with points distributor, original TF727 (just rebuilt), original ignition switch (this one doesn't have a ground wire terminal, and is grounded through the dash I'm surmising). Prior to today, I had one issue about 1 month ago where it wouldn't turn over and I got a click from the starter. That was about about 3 hours after letting it run and warm up, so the battery shouldn't have been dead. However, I hooked up jumper cables to get it started and that worked, so I didn't think much about it. It has been fine since, including starting and running about 10 times, having the trans rebuilt and test driven by a mechanic. Prior to that event a month ago, I had no starting issues since I can remember, but the lock in the ignition switch is tough to turn and needs to be jiggled.

Today, this happened:
1. After sitting for about 2 weeks, I attempted to start and got a click from the starter. I jumped the car, it ran for about 10 minutes and I drove it 3 miles, then shut it off.
2. Five minutes after turning it off, I attempted to restart and got nothing at all. (Thought maybe the battery didn't fully charge, but the starter should have at least clicked, right?). Because it was easy, hooked up jumper cables and turned the key; nothing.
3. Attempted to bypass the start relay with a screwdriver and the ignition switch in the run position. Got the car to turn over and fire, but it would shut off as soon as the screwdriver was removed.
4. Kept trying the key and eventually we got the car to turn over with the key, but again, it would shut off as soon as the key was released to the run position.
5. At this point I thought it was my 50 year-old ignition switch (didn't think ballast resistor but probably should have). Tried to find one at the auto parts stores in town, no luck. Ordered one for pickup later in the day.
6. I came home and found an ignition switch in my dad's stash of parts, but it had an extra terminal labeled "GRD". Assumed that since it wouldn't interfere with my connector on the back of the switch, and since it was just a ground and not an additional circuit, I could give it a try. I did not mount the switch in the dash (I'm assuming this is a mistake because it wasn't grounded).

Here is where my memory gets a little fuzzy and the order of events may be off a little.

7. When I tried my dad's switch, I don't think it did anything (I realize now it was probably because it wasn't grounded).
8. Knowing we had an extra starter relay, and because we were getting frustrated, I decided to try swapping it out. Before swapping, I disconnected the negative battery cable and installed the new start relay. When I tried to reinstall the battery cable, I got arcing at the terminal and where the wire from the positive battery cable wire connects to the starter relay. (At this point, the ignition switch is dangling under my dash, and I might have forgotten to turn the ignition switch off after the last attempt to start with the key, so maybe that caused an immediate current draw?)
9. Unsure what the heck just happened, but knowing we didn't like the result of a start relay swap, I put my old starter relay back on. I did not attempt to reconnect the battery at this point.
10. Frustrated, I took a break and surfed the internet for an answer and was reminded that the ballast resistor could be faulty and cause a car to shut off when the switch is released to the run position.
11. I swapped in a new ballast resistor (the old one wasn't broken, but on the back, the terminal area was a little dark on both ends). I attempt to connect the negative battery cable and it starts to arc again, but it took a few seconds to remove it and the wire going from the battery to the ignition relay got really hot and melted some electrical tape that was on a spliced area. (The ignition switch at this time was still dangling under the dash, not grounded, and possibly still in the run position, I cannot remember for certain).
12. At this point I gave up, but did go pick up my new ignition switch and it is not like my original. It too has the extra terminal for GRD.

Questions I have right now:
1. Will an ignition switch with the extra "GRD" terminal be ok in my car?
2. Should I make up a wire from the GRD terminal to a chassis ground, or should I leave it alone and rely on the dash to ground the switch?
3. What would cause my positive wire from the battery to the start relay to draw so much current that it would melt electrical tape in about 3 seconds? Is it because my ignition switch wasn't grounded, because the key was in the run position, or possibly both?
4. Why didn't we notice the wire from positive terminal to the starter relay get hot when I tried to start the car after swapping ignition switches and leaving it ungrounded? Perhaps just because I turned it quickly to start and then back to off the heat didn't have time to build up?
5. Can the starter be causing any of my problems? It was removed when the transmission was rebuilt, and then it was reinstalled. All connections on it look correct and seem tight. I'm thinking, no.

I'm looking for ideas, but I'm planning to replace my wire from the positive battery terminal to the start relay, replace the ignition switch and run a ground wire to the chassis, replace the start relay and new ballast resistor because they may be damaged. I'll ensure the key is off before connecting the battery. Any thoughts on my likelihood of success with that plan? Unfortunately the car is at my parents' house, 2.5 hours away and I won't be able to get back down there for a little while.

If you read this far, thank you! Also, thanks i advance for your suggestion(s)!

OK, you have a few problems....

A. Your charging system (battery, alternator, voltage regulator, battery cables, ground, misc. wiring has a problem somewhere). You can add ballast resistor to this list too IF you have a double ballast, but I think stock for '67 is the single ballast.

B. Your blue wire (main power) coming out of the bulkhead disconnect & going to the ballast resistor isn't providing 12 volts. This could be a bad wire, blown fusible link, or a bad ignition switch.

C. Your "new" starter relay is bad & may have caused your blue wire problem and/or other wiring problems when you tried it.

D. You now have a "dead short to ground" somewhere since it arcs when you re-attached the negative battery cable. This "could" be the starter itself OR the starter relay (I'd buy a new 3rd one & toss the other two in the trash) or some other wiring that is now fried in the blue/main power wire going to the ballast resistor, through the bulkhead disconnect, from the ignition switch that I mentioned in (B). I would also throw that ignition switch in the trash and put the correct/new one in there right now... easy on a '67... AND visually inspect (for melting) every single wire going into & out of the ignition switch.

Now to answer your specific questions:
1. Not sure, but I would ONLY use the exact, correct, new ignition switch personally.
2. Neither. Throw that switch in the trash and get a new/correct one.
3. a) you now have a dead-short inside the starter or b) BOTH of your starter relays are toast or c) both of your ignition switches are bad or d) you've really, really fried your wiring going to/from the ignition switch or e) you now have a dead-short actually inside your alternator OR the main power wire (big red one) coming from back of alternator, through bulkhead disconnect, to amp meter, back again through bulkhead disconnect, and to the + side of the battery or f) your amp meter & associated wiring in now fried.
4. Because you hadn't burned up as much wiring/electronics then as you have now.
5. Yes, a dead-short inside the starter would do this....get it "load tested" at a parts store.

Thanks, PurpleBeeper.

Reading your reply, I remembered one other detail. I don't think it will make a difference, but wanted to share it just in case.

After running the car for 10 minutes and shutting it off, when I attempted a restart and got "nothing", my dad wiggled the negative battery cable and then it did at least "click". I checked and there was some corrosion, so I cleaned it up.

Also, my under dash and engine wiring harnesses are reproductions and have been on the car for a few years without problems, so I was really hoping to avoid wiring problems after spending several hundred dollars to replace those already.

Aside from that, I can't think of anything else to add.

I guess my first step will be to replace the start relay, ballast resister, ignition switch (with a correct one..I hope it won't be too hard to find), and pull the starter to have it bench tested. I'll inspect the wiring and go from there. Sounds like this is going to be a major pain in the rear.

I'm getting really frustrated with the car. I've owned it for about 14 years and finally got the transmission rebuilt and now this. That 3 mile drive I took yesterday was the first time I've ever had it on the road.

Thanks again!

If you have a probe light connect it between ground batt cable and negative on battery and if there is a current draw it will light up. You can now disconnect loads one by one to find which is the problem or which one has a short circuit.

Black64 is correct, but be aware that opening a door&turning on the dome lite will cause the probe lite to light up also; pull dome bulbs out.

Oh yeah, disconnect neg cable from batt & then probe lite goes one end to cable & other to batt post( kind of a clarification to "64's" post).

Moparcoastie said:

Thanks, PurpleBeeper.

Reading your reply, I remembered one other detail. I don't think it will make a difference, but wanted to share it just in case.

After running the car for 10 minutes and shutting it off, when I attempted a restart and got "nothing", my dad wiggled the negative battery cable and then it did at least "click". I checked and there was some corrosion, so I cleaned it up.

Also, my under dash and engine wiring harnesses are reproductions and have been on the car for a few years without problems, so I was really hoping to avoid wiring problems after spending several hundred dollars to replace those already.

Aside from that, I can't think of anything else to add.

I guess my first step will be to replace the start relay, ballast resister, ignition switch (with a correct one..I hope it won't be too hard to find), and pull the starter to have it bench tested. I'll inspect the wiring and go from there. Sounds like this is going to be a major pain in the rear.

I'm getting really frustrated with the car. I've owned it for about 14 years and finally got the transmission rebuilt and now this. That 3 mile drive I took yesterday was the first time I've ever had it on the road.

Thanks again!

Click to expand...

Maybe test your alternator at a parts store too since that's easy & cheap. You'll get it brother...hang in there. Try all the easy/cheap stuff first. Actually inspecting the wires is free.

I just wanted to provide an update/resolution for anyone interested. Turns out I had two issues.

1. The original no start condition was caused by a loose starter wire (the small one from the starter relay). Ijust had my transmission rebuilt and it seems that my transmission guy must have damaged the terminal somehow. The threads were fine, but the terminal would start spinning just as the nut started getting tight. This caused the intermittent start condition and led me to start swapping other parts, which caused more issues.

2. The "new" starter relay I put on was bad and had an internal short (I think). When I hooked my test light as suggested, and started removing the starter relay connections, the test light went out. I installed a new one and the problem was solved.

After replacing my damaged battery cable and the starter, I'm back upand running.

Thanks for the support!

Brian