2 Bad Power Steering Boxes in 2 Weeks? What's Going On?

PurpleBeeper · Jul 1, 2017

Here's the full story. I have manual steering car and installed power steering.
1. Swapped manual to p/s shaft in column
2. New pitman arm (if I remember correctly)
3. New coupler with new internals
4. Rebuilt parts-store p/s pump. Saginaw, round/metal reservoir
5. Return hose nipple piece I bought off ebay (didn't come with p/s gear box).
6. Aftermarket p/s pump brackets & pressure hose + I used trans cooler hose for return line.
7. Rock Auto rebuilt stock p/s box

Everything seemed fine & drove well for maybe 1 year with only about 200 miles put on the car. Then, when I was parallel parking the system seemed would occasionally "hang up" and lose power assist. I would hear a 1-2 second squeal whenever it would happen. Eventually, during 0-80mph acceleration, it threw the belt off.

I figured the p/s pump was bad, so I swapped it for another parts store rebuilt p/s pump. The 2nd p/s pump is still a Saginaw (I believe), but it has a larger, plastic reservoir. The problem kept happening & for sure the squeal was my new p/s belt slipping (pulley locking up I guess), just occasionally when parking. TWO days later the gear box starts bleeding p/s fluid around the splines where the coupler goes on.

I bought a second rebuilt stock p/s box from Rock Auto & after 3 days work I got it installed. I start the car up & start turning the steering wheel slowly lock-to-lock to bleed out the air while I keep adding more p/s fluid....and more...and more. The dang 2nd power steering box from Rock Auto is bleeding p/s fluid from on top where you adjust the worm gear....ZERO miles...never left the garage.

What the heck is going on? 2 boxes & 2 pumps

747mopar · Jul 1, 2017

That may not be a big issue, there should be a soft metal washer under the nut to seal it up. Might be as simple as torqueing the nut, I've used copper brake hose washers before with good luck.

PurpleBeeper · Jul 1, 2017

It's not actually at the worm gear nut.....it's leaking all around the vertical section of the gear box guts (wish I knew the name)....cross shaft sector gear maybe? It's about 4" wide & circular. It has what I call the "worm gear" screw/locking nut in the middle of it that you're talking about..... wish it was just that.

PurpleBeeper · Jul 1, 2017

747mopar said:
That may not be a big issue, there should be a soft metal washer under the nut to seal it up. Might be as simple as torqueing the nut, I've used copper brake hose washers before with good luck.

see above...... Any ideas?

BeatersRus · Jul 1, 2017

6. Aftermarket p/s pump brackets pressure hose + I used trans cooler hose for return line.

is the inner diameter the same as the factory one?

and.
the power steering pressure fitting,held in w 2 bolts on top of box
https://www.jimsautoparts.com/power-steering-box-fitting.jpg

if thats not Dead center it can and Will force your pump to do very strange and bad things.
what you describe deffo sounds like a pressure problem.

69L48Z27 · Jul 2, 2017

Also, did your combination ever leave the factory together? PS pump pressure needs to be matched to the box your using. Different boxes need the right pressure from the pump.

747mopar · Jul 2, 2017

PurpleBeeper said:
It's not actually at the worm gear nut.....it's leaking all around the vertical section of the gear box guts (wish I knew the name)....cross shaft sector gear maybe? It's about 4" wide & circular. It has what I call the "worm gear" screw/locking nut in the middle of it that you're talking about..... wish it was just that.

I've rebuilt them and I believe (if my memory serves me correctly) that there's an o ring that seals it. Likely got damaged during the assembly.

Like the last guy said I'm curious if there is a difference in pressure although I ran a Saginaw pump with no issue and am now running a modern Jeep pump again with no issues. I don't think it's a pressure issue but who knows.

PurpleBeeper · Jul 2, 2017

BeatersRus said:
is the inner diameter the same as the factory one?

and.
the power steering pressure fitting,held in w 2 bolts on top of box
https://www.jimsautoparts.com/power-steering-box-fitting.jpg

if thats not Dead center it can and Will force your pump to do very strange and bad things.
what you describe deffo sounds like a pressure problem.

Hey Beater, it DOES seem like a pressure issue....these are not "leaking" gear boxes....they flow like a RIVER (full quart p/s fluid drains out in 60 seconds on both gear boxes & from 2 different locations of the gear box(s).

So please explain more. In your picture, the right half with the hose barb type nipple I bought off ebay & have used it on BOTH gear boxes. Is that my problem? The left half of the part in the picture with the threaded flared fitting was included with both p/s boxes (2 different ones obviously), BUT that nipple part where the p/s return hose is attached has been the same.

First, how do I know that my "right nipple half" is centered & working??? I thought the pressure relief valve was in the back of the p/s pump where there pressure hose attaches, but I have no clue honestly.

I'm not sure why it matters, but everything with the p/s pump bracket seems OK. I did have to use a few washers to center the p/s pump pulley with the crank pulley. Since my car was originally manual steering, I don't have another p/s to compare with.

BeatersRus · Jul 2, 2017

i used to run into this with people yanking the motors and trannies out,theyd hit that valve or yank it while pulling.
then theyd put a new motor in and start it up and whammo power steering issues.

that valve has to be centered perfectly and usually i do that with the car running.
so youll need 2 peeps,one to shut off the car right away.
we used to loosen the 2 bolts Barely and then tap the nipple there.
you can " hear " the difference in sound if its not centered.
it will also send your steering wheel into a fit if you go too Far<<

theres a really good question there tho to the gurus here.
are all the valves the same?
i never had to replace one,i just centered them.

im not Sure thats whats going on with yours tho.
it kinda sounds more like a direct pressure problem.
you are deffo blowing the seals right out of these boxes.
again,id ask,maybe look at a hose at a car/junkyard and nab it see what the diameter Inside hose is?
or hey ill take one off today and measure it for you.
ill also try to get some form of part number off the valve itself.

btw,i realize you probably have a show car,but i do have a full setup for a bb still on the car and we are putting a small block back in.
if thatd help in any way.

PurpleBeeper · Jul 2, 2017

Beater, you're the man. I don't have a "show car", I have a "daily driver" that I drive to work & back when it's running. I've never heard about "centering the valve" before. Both boxes came with the left half of the part in your picture & I bought the nipple half (right) on Ebay and have used it on both boxes.

Are you talking about "sliding over" this part (left)? Both boxes were shipped, so it could have moved if that's possible.

Or this part (the nipple) which I bought on Ebay (right)? I just put in the supplied o-ring that came with the box and bolted this nipple up to both boxes.

Please explain more. I won't have anyone helping me, but I will deal with the mess if I have to.

PurpleBeeper · Jul 2, 2017

Also, what limited information there is in the factory service manual says this piece on the back of the p/s pump where the high pressure hose screws into is some type of pressure valve. Does this have something to do with what I'm experiencing?

I've been wondering if the first box just wore out. The first box started leaking like crazy AFTER I installed the 2nd p/s pump. The 2nd p/s pump was still on the car when I installed the 2nd box...which also leaked immediately.

Billccm · Jul 2, 2017

I know I've read somewhere a technique to reduce the pressure from the pump. I think it was washers between a spring. Richard E from Moar Action magazine also did a how to article on this; perhaps search for this?

I fought and fought a puking power steering ram on a friends mustang. Finally found a different used power steering pump and the puking went away. Fast forward a few years and that power steering pump failed, and you guessed it, the rebuilt pump replacement caused the ram to puke again. Final fix was to find a retired mechanic who modified the pump for lower pressure.

Billccm · Jul 2, 2017

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads...n-article-on-power-steering-modification.html

BeatersRus · Jul 2, 2017

PurpleBeeper said:
Also, what limited information there is in the factory service manual says this piece on the back of the p/s pump where the high pressure hose screws into is some type of pressure valve. Does this have something to do with what I'm experiencing?
View attachment 441911

I've been wondering if the first box just wore out. The first box started leaking like crazy AFTER I installed the 2nd p/s pump. The 2nd p/s pump was still on the car when I installed the 2nd box...which also leaked immediately.

okay now delete all the known working elements and whats left for variables?
the aftermarket pressure hose,and the valve of top of the steering box.

now eliminate the steps you went in.
it didnt leak until you installed the 2cnd Pump<<
and the 2cnd pump made the New box leak also.

that says pump to me.
the valve hanging up is more of a distant second.

the link Bill provides is an Nice upgrade but probably isnt your situation at hand.
not unless you were in the boxes stacking washers.

also,tomm ill pull that power steering pump off and get some pics of the box setup and valve with nothing else in the way.

PurpleBeeper · Jul 2, 2017

BeatersRus said:
okay now delete all the known working elements and whats left for variables?
the aftermarket pressure hose,and the valve of top of the steering box.

now eliminate the steps you went in.
it didnt leak until you installed the 2cnd Pump<<
and the 2cnd pump made the New box leak also.

that says pump to me.
the valve hanging up is more of a distant second.

the link Bill provides is an Nice upgrade but probably isnt your situation at hand.
not unless you were in the boxes stacking washers.

also,tomm ill pull that power steering pump off and get some pics of the box setup and valve with nothing else in the way.

I was thinking the pump too. I'm almost done putting the first p/s pump back on the car. I figured I have nothing to loose. HOPEFULLY the leak is actually at the return hose & not the gear box itself.....I did put another clamp on that hose to seal it....but just hoping. I guess the p/s pressure hose could be bad, but HOW? I mean those fittings are bone dry.

Here's the first pump that was on there...the one I'm putting back on.

The 2nd pump (when the leaking started) bolted up the same, but has a plastic reservoir. I just took this one off.

fyi - I'm using the same pulley & have been transferring it between pumps.

furyus · Jul 3, 2017

My experience has been that the cheapo rebuilds always leak, screw up, something. I went through 4 boxes till I finally bought a box from Steer and Gear. Call them, or Firm Feel, to get the right answers and order a well built box.

PurpleBeeper · Jul 3, 2017

FIXED IT! Thanks everyone for your help & especially beater who talked me off the ledge.

Here's what happened.
1. First gear box was "borderline" and wearing out.... but I thought it was the p/s pump.
2. Replaced p/s pump.
3. 2nd p/s pump's pressure valve was set too high & that killed the 1st gear box quick.
4. Still with the 2nd p/s pump, I had forgot one of the two O-rings on the p/s return line fitting. This likely saved the 2nd box. The leak I "thought" I was seeing on the sector gear (?) around the worm gear was actually that missing o-ring (right above it).
5. I put the first p/s pump back on & replaced a 25-cent o-ring....FIXED!

I'm VERY glad I didn't buy a 3rd steering gear box and have the car down for another month!

2 Bad Power Steering Boxes in 2 Weeks? What's Going On?

PurpleBeeper

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747mopar

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PurpleBeeper

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PurpleBeeper

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BeatersRus

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69L48Z27

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747mopar

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PurpleBeeper

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PurpleBeeper

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Billccm

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