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Need an education on 440s

Paul Boucher

Paul Boucher

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So I am planning a budget for an engine swap. I have a 67 Coronet R/T that the original motor was blown by the original owner drag racing. It now has a 66 383 that runs pretty good, but I would like to take it back to a 440, and enjoy a little more umph! I have been reading up on 440s and am still confused. I was leaning towards trying to find a date correct C440HP, for resale value mostly, but know that will be tougher to find (or the ones I have found are priced crazy), so I am kind of leaning towards just finding a good 440, build it up, slap it in and enjoy it. My conundrum is that I am confused by the pre / post 71 440s, RV 440s, Truck 440s, and its seams every other type of 440 out there. What I need help on is:

1. Understanding what the real difference is (or is a 440 a 440) (non HP vs HP, and does it make a difference if I do a full build?)

2. Should I look for a complete motor or a good block and build from there?
2a. Is it easy to get everything I need to build from a block?

3. If I buy a complete motor should I expect to still do a complete rebuild?

4. What type of budget should I set, block build budget vs complete motor build budget?
4a. If I build in stages what would I expect, example, 1. purchase cost, 2. machine cost, 3. assembly cost, 4. install cost, etc.

5. What's the main difference in heads, 906, 915, aftermarket, etc? (I know the 67's came with 915s, but does it make a big difference?)

I don't plan on drag racing, mostly car shows, cruising, and throwing my 6 year old son in the back of his seat. I still remember the first time my uncle did that with me and my cousin in his 440 6pack Superbird. Never forget that feeling. I just want something that is fun, but can still make a 300 mile trip, and gets the car a little closer to original.

Thanks in advance guys for the help and input!

Just picked up this book and looking forward to reading.
51ofU2SNrBL._SX384_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
 
HP...Cam, Carb, windage tray

If I had a known good viable HP 67 block than I would build it....The block being viable is more important than the accessories. Accessories can be found. Remember water pump housings are dated, Heads are dated(but who cares unless you rip the valve covers off)

I never go and thrown in unknown motors.....it is a headache waiting to happen

Cost depends on your area complete 440 ranges from 500-1000...Stock rebuild straight up no problems around 3-5k but that can vary on area and machine shop.

915's only came on GTX's two versions of 915's the key one is the closed chamber head big valve. For budget purposes and a stock rebuild don't waste your money on 915's stick with what it had 906's

The key thing with a stock rebuild is get the correct pistons, critical...or it will be a turd....Do not rely on a machine shop or you will have the junk 8.5:1 turds...I can put you in touch with a guy that can walk you through the right choices...He owns a Mopar machine shop and is a member over on DC.com...
 
Is there anything salvagable from the old 440? Crank, heads?
Sounds like you want something pretty typical probably in 400hp range.
A 9 5 flattop motor with a nice stick.
I would guess you could find a rebuildable core from $100-400....if you are not worried about the correctness of motor, I would invest most of my money in some after market heads...even the cheapest made Chinese flow better...Edlebrocks have come way down and will optimize any cam or allow for future upgrades...
 
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I have a good block, ly rods and a forged crank that I can sell
 
Paul Boucher said:
What I need help on is:

1. Understanding what the real difference is (or is a 440 a 440) (non HP vs HP, and does it make a difference if I do a full build?) HP has a stamping saying HP, and externally air filter assemblies, intake and carb, exhaust manifolding, and a windage tray. All other components are the same in comparing the same year HP vs non-HP. HP means second shift assembly. Not "sic pack block". Quality wise the later ones are more consistent casting quality and the iron is supposedly a hair better. Those are my preferred to use. Earlier blocks can be thicker, but the iron is supposed to be slightly weaker, and the castings have a lot of core shift. I own a Dakota Ultrasonics tester and have tested a bunch. These are my results. A full build means you can upgrade whatever to whatever. I'd say go with whatever's cheapest initial purchase and pay for good machining as needed.

2. Should I look for a complete motor or a good block and build from there? Depends on what you want to do. For a mild build, get a whole engine. For something wild, just the block will do.
2a. Is it easy to get everything I need to build from a block? Yes. Just more expensive, but if you're going wild it will be expensive anyway.

3. If I buy a complete motor should I expect to still do a complete rebuild? Depends on what you buy

4. What type of budget should I set, block build budget vs complete motor build budget? Start with either a power level if budget is not a prblem. Start with a budget figure if it is. Numbers will vary on end result, path to get there, and your local market.
4a. If I build in stages what would I expect, example, 1. purchase cost, 2. machine cost, 3. assembly cost, 4. install cost, etc. In my opinion/experience for a solid street engine in the 450hp range out of my garage: 1. $400-500 2. $. $3K 3. $3500 (parts and assembly. Add $200 for cambreak in or $1K for dyno) 4. Drive in, drive out probably in the $1K range depending on the parts list and exhaust mods.

5. What's the main difference in heads, 906, 915, aftermarket, etc? (I know the 67's came with 915s, but does it make a big difference?) What's the difference between a $5 bill and a $20? One you more likely will have, one you more likely will want to have. Heads are like that. A good set of iron heads will run $1200. A good set of low price point aluminums will go $1800-$2K to get bolted down. They go up from there but you don;t need more head than that for what I propsoed above.
Click to expand...
 
The way I do it is this:

Real 440 cars get either their correct motor or a date code correct motor (block) I always just spend the extra money to stroke them and use aluminum heads or well prepped date code correct heads. I stroke them for: stronger parts, thin, moly coated ring packs, balanced and of course 500 plus inches. Usual costs about 1,000 more into the bottom end versus a stock rebuild.

If it isn't a real 440 car (to include 6 pack) such as my 66 318 charger then i prefer later blocks with larger water jackets and strengthening ribs on the block. I always have them sonic checked and thus far the best sonic check has came from my 74 hp block. Watch out for main thrust bearing differences. And at this point I stroke them and use aftermarket aluminum heads.
 
I have a 67 440 That is completely rebuilt it cost me 700 for the engine and 4200 in machine and parts cost. it came out of a 67Chrysler 300. I bored it .030 over new forged pistons, new valves, springs, cam& lifters, push rods, etc. Block decked and head surfaced. Prices vary but these are what to expect for a complete rebuild.
 
Paul Boucher said:
I was leaning towards trying to find a date correct C440HP, for resale value mostly, but know that will be tougher to find (or the ones I have found are priced crazy), so I am kind of leaning towards just finding a good 440, build it up, slap it in and enjoy it.
I just want something that is fun, but can still make a 300 mile trip, and gets the car a little closer to original.
Click to expand...
You're going to get a lot of specific head/cam advice, but maybe take a step back first to what dieseldazzle alluded to in "real 440 car." You want resale value but the prices scared you into looking at later blocks? My opinion is you have to decide which direction first and stick with it. Your time and costs will all be based on that and what you find in the market. The performance in any pro build will be there, but I assume either way in the end it should be a "mild" build on pump gas for your use (not a stroker).

1. Understanding what the real difference is (or is a 440 a 440) (non HP vs HP, and does it make a difference if I do a full build?).
"HP" matters for correct blocks and resale, and performance if it is stock. A "full build" (you mean higher performing top and bottom end/intake/carb/heads/radiator/pumps?) would negate paying higher HP prices. But a "full build" also puts resale in a different category of buyer, one who will pay for performance but not the fact it's an R/T.

2. Should I look for a complete motor or a good block and build from there?
It depends on which route and your patience in finding parts.
- date-correct block ($1000?): stick with stock and a mild cam, resale is key.
- date-correct motor: you'll find Bigfoot before you find this
- 68-71HP longblock ($2500?) or block ($750?): stick with stockish, but most will have been bored.
- 68-71HP motor: maybe ($3500-5000?) that needs work?
- pre-76 non-HP motor ($600?) or block ($200?): gotta go through it anyway, so build for wild. Keeping from 9:5 to around 10:2 for pump gas kinda negates building for wild though.
- 76-79 non-HP motor ($400?): mostly from RVs, have the thicker webbing important to some people when built for racing. No advantage for your use. Ditto work as pre-76.

2a. Is it easy to get everything I need to build from a block?
If you go date-correct , it will be expensive and span a long time sourcing the parts from carb to pan. If not, there are guys who sell turn-key 440s with a pretty good setup for $8-10K.

3. If I buy a complete motor should I expect to still do a complete rebuild?
You'll probably want to visit a machine shop in any scenario. Parts depends on what it comes with.

4. What type of budget should I set, block build budget vs complete motor build budget?
4a. If I build in stages what would I expect, example, 1. purchase cost, 2. machine cost, 3. assembly cost, 4. install cost, etc.
You're probably looking at $6-12K depending on what you start with, staged or not.

5. What's the main difference in heads, 906, 915, aftermarket, etc? (I know the 67's came with 915s, but does it make a big difference?)
915s with the closed chamber would be good for quench, but the price for 1 year only is a premium. By the time you machine the 906s you will be near cost for new aluminum heads that breathe better. But again it depends if you go stock-looking mild or aftermarket high performance.
 
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would be cheaper to build the 383 that you already have, would make plenty of power and be fun/ reliable at the same time. Unless you absolutely have to have a 440 !
 
915 heads with big valves were indeed on 67 R/T.

If it were me, I'd look for a date correct 67 440 block, and you will instantly have the "original" engine, which is a luxury the 68(.5) to 71 crowd will never enjoy.
 
spend money on a good machinist that knows mopars that will save you money good pistons no trw and balance everything you will be fine
 
I've got several blocks,heads and the rest of the parts required to put together a motor but it wouldn't be date code correct for your car..
 
Spent most of the day out with my son, gave the wife some well deserved time to herself to enjoy, and was just checking FBBO why I was grilling and saw all the comments and advice. I wanted to say thank you all (y,all for the southerners like me :)) so much! I will read through tonight/tomorrow morning and give thanks and additional questions. I know I will have some from what I've skimmed. Thanks again guys!
 
Read through everything and man thanks for all the input! Lot of things to think about.

I appreciate the real world numbers on the cost, that helps a bunch with setting a realistic budget and know how much I need to save.

I do know I don't want anything crazy or a track car. I want to be able to still cruise, but also want to be able to lay down some rubber and have that thrown in the back of your seat feeling...you know the fun stuff my son will enjoy...oh, and me! :)

From what I gather, date block is mostly for resale, but outside that I can probably do what I want to do (450hp to maybe 500hp) with any 440, and if it's not date correct it doesn't really matter what year block I get. More is about the quality of the block and components (and in what combination) I choose (cam, heads, carb, torque converter, etc.). Also sounds like it's best to have the entire engine gone through no matter what, so not over spending on a complete "was running when pulled" engine.

Anything else you guys can think of is greatly appreciated! I know I am a novice at this and want to learn all I can. The more information the better, knowledge is power.

Thanks guys! Paul
 
MCODECUDA said:
I've got several blocks,heads and the rest of the parts required to put together a motor but it wouldn't be date code correct for your car..
Click to expand...
Mcode, thanks for the offer! I will definitely stay in touch as I move forward. Maybe we can meet up in September when I come over for the Petty Cruise in. I have family over there and will either be staying in Mint Hill or Concord.
 
YY1 said:
915 heads with big valves were indeed on 67 R/T.

If it were me, I'd look for a date correct 67 440 block, and you will instantly have the "original" engine, which is a luxury the 68(.5) to 71 crowd will never enjoy.
Click to expand...
So meaning after 68.5 they had the vin on the block, but didn't before then?
 
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