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headers or factory manifolds?

dennis degeneffe

dennis degeneffe

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I have a 1965 belvedere that I am swapping out the original 273 for a 1970 340. I have located a set of exhaust manifolds (2863549 & 2863553) ,for $575, from what I have read these should fit my application. So I am throwing this out there to the guys with all the experience, will these work? is the price fair? Will I need a 90* oil filter adapter? Or is there a set of headers that will work that are not a nightmare to put on?( after all...big car, small block equals more room, right!?) One more thing, I am planninng to convert the manual steering to power! ( this car is automatic on the column) do I need to swap steering columns? is there anything in the aftermarket that could make the swap easier? maybe save some horsepower? Please share your advice and any experience with these topics/questions.
thank You, Dennis
 
I don't know about the manifolds. Shorty style headers would be easiest to fit, but not as good as full length headers. The steering shaft will be too long, the column itself will be no problem. I don't remember the dimensions, about a couple of inches. If you have your shaft cut, the pin hole will have to be bored for an interference fit and indexed to the master spline at the steering wheel. Probably easier just to replace the column with one for power steering. Shouldn't be too hard to find, I've got one in a parts car, but I won't have time to remove it for a while.
 
dennis degeneffe said:
I have a 1965 belvedere that I am swapping out the original 273 for a 1970 340. I have located a set of exhaust manifolds (2863549 & 2863553) ,for $575, from what I have read these should fit my application.
So I am throwing this out there to the guys with all the experience, will these work?
is the price fair?
Will I need a 90* oil filter adapter?
Or is there a set of headers that will work that are not a nightmare to put on?
( after all...big car, small block equals more room, right!?)
One more thing, I am planninng to convert the manual steering to power! ( this car is automatic on the column) do I need to swap steering columns?
is there anything in the aftermarket that could make the swap easier? maybe save some horsepower?
Please share your advice and any experience with these topics/questions.
thank You, Dennis
Click to expand...

Dennis, you have a ton of questions in one post. YIKES!
While I have not personally worked on your year car, here is what I know and suggest.

You ask;
Will they work?
(Oil filter fitment.)

The exhaust manifolds have a casting number which can be checked IF they came on the car. But we already know they didn't because there 340 manifolds and the 340 wasn't yet in cars. Your going to have to ether find someone who has done this exact manifold swap. Not all manifolds exit at the same point. That same person should also tell you if you need the adapter.

Cost?

There only worth what one is willing to pay. Price shop! Look look look around!!!!!

Headers/room to fit;

Check TTI for headers. They have fitted the best of all I have used. EZ? Well, LOL, none are easy but the TTI installs I have done are as close to easy as it gets.
While the small block has more room, that doesn't guarantee a EZ time at it.

The swap from auto to manual requires a different column with the steering box change. Do a search on the subject here for details.

I don't know if there is an aftermarket part for this.

Savin (making) horsepower;

The less parasitic drag on the engine the better. The easier the engine can breath in and exhale, the more power it can make. Match the compression to the cam size used. Ported heads can help breathing, but it is not mandatory.

How effective you put the power to the ground is utilizing the horsepower effectively, or not. The less effective the power hits the pavement the more power you'll need to make to overcome the deficiency of good traction.

A good converter, quick shifting transmission along with a good suspension and tires will effectively transmit the power for effective use. This way, you'll not need to over build the engine to move quickly.
 
I converted my 64 belvedere to power from Manual. It was a simple switch. I removed the coupler, knocked out the pin and just slid the shaft itself out of the column without disturbing the column itself. I just had to remove the wheel and the signal light switch. I slid the new shaft in put the coupler back on and hooked it up. (after swapping the box of course. As for the manifolds and filter adapter, I don't know as my car was a big block. My 340 experience was an A body. the 340 with manifolds required the 90* adapter for that.
 
64Belvedere said:
I converted my 64 belvedere to power from Manual. It was a simple switch. I removed the coupler, knocked out the pin and just slid the shaft itself out of the column without disturbing the column itself. I just had to remove the wheel and the signal light switch. I slid the new shaft in put the coupler back on and hooked it up. (after swapping the box of course. As for the manifolds and filter adapter, I don't know as my car was a big block. My 340 experience was an A body. the 340 with manifolds required the 90* adapter for that.
Click to expand...
Sounds relatively easy and not as much parts chasing as I would have thought, however,
your 64 is a push button auto trans. or a manual trans.(no shift cables that go up the column,correct?) In my car the 65 uses the 904 trans set up with the same cables as the push button set up except, they go up the column. (It is a column shift automatic with the push button cables in the column) So if I understand you correctly all that was needed besides power steering pump, bracket etc. was the shaft for the column. I was hoping to hear that, instead of swapping out the entire column. Hopefully that is all I need to do.
Thank You 64.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Dennis, you have a ton of questions in one post. YIKES!
While I have not personally worked on your year car, here is what I know and suggest.

You ask;
Will they work?
(Oil filter fitment.)

The exhaust manifolds have a casting number which can be checked IF they came on the car. But we already know they didn't because there 340 manifolds and the 340 wasn't yet in cars. Your going to have to ether find someone who has done this exact manifold swap. Not all manifolds exit at the same point. That same person should also tell you if you need the adapter.

Cost?

There only worth what one is willing to pay. Price shop! Look look look around!!!!!

Headers/room to fit;

Check TTI for headers. They have fitted the best of all I have used. EZ? Well, LOL, none are easy but the TTI installs I have done are as close to easy as it gets.
While the small block has more room, that doesn't guarantee a EZ time at it.

The swap from auto to manual requires a different column with the steering box change. Do a search on the subject here for details.

I don't know if there is an aftermarket part for this.

Savin (making) horsepower;

The less parasitic drag on the engine the better. The easier the engine can breath in and exhale, the more power it can make. Match the compression to the cam size used. Ported heads can help breathing, but it is not mandatory.

How effective you put the power to the ground is utilizing the horsepower effectively, or not. The less effective the power hits the pavement the more power you'll need to make to overcome the deficiency of good traction.

A good converter, quick shifting transmission along with a good suspension and tires will effectively transmit the power for effective use. This way, you'll not need to over build the engine to move quickly.
Click to expand...
This is why I put this out to forbbodies only. I am hoping that some out there has done this swap from 273 to 340 in the early b body. I have heard TTI is the best fit and it is still an option. the factory exhaust manifolds have not been purchased yet.
I have located a pump and gear box that need to be rebuilt(sellers suggestion) but he does not have the shaft or column. What about an electric set-up?
A stall converter will be used. At this point I am starting to acquire the parts I need to put this together, as best i can, in one shot.(the car is not yet dismantled and is still driveable with the 273 and manual steering!) when the 273 is pulled out the tranny will go out for a rebuild.
Thank You Rumblefish.
P.S. in the 80's I had a 78 magnum 360. it was dark brown metallic and had a bronze half vinyl top. it was a bit rusty but I replaced the quarters myself. I had it painted the same brown color but two toned it like the Daytonas. the second color was the color of the top, of course. the painter did a great job with the two tone and leaving a pin stripe between the two colors. I had tons of compliments from friends and strangers. If I can find pictures I will post them.
 
A '78? Cool. I have 2 sets of tail lights for that year collecting dust.
A friend of mine came across a brown/beige interior '78. I almost owned it. The husband passed away and the widow was out to lunch crying the blues (sarcasm) that she couldn't find the title after 2 months. I have it back. To much hassle.

(She was actually trying to capitalize on the poor me aspect. More drugs to calm her nevres, make her sleep, bad ending I think. It was clear she loved to scream and yell and then came cry and scream a second later. Total B.S.)
 
My baby brother ...today is a man.
IMG_1383.JPG
...put on your big boy pants and do this,,,

 
PRND21 said:
I don't know about the manifolds. Shorty style headers would be easiest to fit, but not as good as full length headers. The steering shaft will be too long, the column itself will be no problem. I don't remember the dimensions, about a couple of inches. If you have your shaft cut, the pin hole will have to be bored for an interference fit and indexed to the master spline at the steering wheel. Probably easier just to replace the column with one for power steering. Shouldn't be too hard to find, I've got one in a parts car, but I won't have time to remove it for a while.
Click to expand...
So it is the length of the shaft. good to know! I wonder if 64belvedere would agree with that, He made the swap as well.
 
I'm no expert - I got rid of my exhaust manifolds decades ago - gave em away back in the day. It just seems to me that $575 is a Boat load of cash for those things. But maybe for those that want the stock look and performance they get that much these days. I would go with the headers if that's not your mo. Everyone goes for the ttis ala fitment. I went with Hooker Competition ceramic coated for my 440. Wasn't that bad putting them on. No denting or banging just finesse. I'm sure they cost less than $600 from Summit. Just my opinion. Good luck which ever way you go!
 
Yes the column is shorter. I might have one in the shop I can measure for you. My car was push button. With the pin out, I wonder if the cables would be in the way? I can't see why. Seems to me when I did it, the only thing I did to the column was to loosen the bolts under the dash a bit to adjust the housing. It was way simpler than changing the whole thing.
 
A lot of the newer GM cars have electric assist steering. The assembly is pretty big tho. Interesting thought to see if it could be done......
 
dennis degeneffe said:
I have a 1965 belvedere that I am swapping out the original 273 for a 1970 340. I have located a set of exhaust manifolds (2863549 & 2863553) ,for $575, from what I have read these should fit my application. So I am throwing this out there to the guys with all the experience, will these work? is the price fair? Will I need a 90* oil filter adapter? Or is there a set of headers that will work that are not a nightmare to put on?( after all...big car, small block equals more room, right!?) One more thing, I am planninng to convert the manual steering to power! ( this car is automatic on the column) do I need to swap steering columns? is there anything in the aftermarket that could make the swap easier? maybe save some horsepower? Please share your advice and any experience with these topics/questions.
thank You, Dennis
Click to expand...
I would definitely use headers over stock manifolds. Just finish your steering project before you buy your headers. Its possible you may need to have a set made to fit your final steering project, or you may make out and find a set that drops right in. Good luck Dennis :)
 
Do yourself a favor and ditch the 65 Torque-flite. Several changes were being made at that time and if you want to get a modern torque-convertor, rebuild, shift kit and so on.. a newer Torque-flite will have many improvements and updates made over the years. Parts will be a lot more available.
 
MoparLeo said:
Do yourself a favor and ditch the 65 Torque-flite. Several changes were being made at that time and if you want to get a modern torque-convertor, rebuild, shift kit and so on.. a newer Torque-flite will have many improvements and updates made over the years. Parts will be a lot more available.
Click to expand...
Don't just " ditch it" There are people willing to pay good money for that big block 727. IIRC that is a cable shift, one year only trans. that is in demand by the earlier years Mopar guys..................................MO
 
PRND21 said:
I don't know about the manifolds. Shorty style headers would be easiest to fit, but not as good as full length headers. The steering shaft will be too long, the column itself will be no problem. I don't remember the dimensions, about a couple of inches. If you have your shaft cut, the pin hole will have to be bored for an interference fit and indexed to the master spline at the steering wheel. Probably easier just to replace the column with one for power steering. Shouldn't be too hard to find, I've got one in a parts car, but I won't have time to remove it for a while.
Click to expand...
I'll be looking for a power steering, column shift automatic column.( for 1965 b body) I'll also keep my eyes open for the correct steering shaft. So far, everywhere I've looked, I have come up empty. I can find manual steering columns, but that is what I have now. Maybe I'll consider a 1966 column and go with a later 727 transmission( the 904 I have now will need rebuilding) Why not then go with a console shift and bucket seats?....Oh God, where does it end?
Seems that i need to get the column figured out before I can move ahead with the other parts I need...steering box and pump etc. and exhaust...headers or factory manifolds(and which ones will work for this application. I doubt using my present 273 manifolds would do justice to the 340) and transmission. Bucket seats and console...depends on the column and is low in priority, but would be cool down the road.
Any thoughts or words of wisdom out there? What years of b bodies can I keep in mind for this project. who has what I need or could use?
 
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