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Stamped rockers not centering on valve tips- how far off is too far?

Cam Cathey

Cam Cathey

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MY FIRST POST! I have found lots of help here – maybe I can be of help for someone else….

I need a group opinion.

I recently bought a new (old) toy. I trust very little of the previous owners work. The 440 wasn’t running to my standards so off came the heads for inspection and cleaning and out came the cam for a little more aggressive one. During teardown of the 440, the stock rocker arms didn’t look right to me.

I have owned B & RB motors before and the stock rockers seemed tighter that these. First, the tips of the rockers don’t ride center on the valves (btw - they don’t look like the stock rockers to me). There is also an excessive amount of play up and down the shaft once the shaft is bolted down. The spacer between them and the hold downs don’t really keep the rockers placed correctly. Do these look right to you?
There is around 1/8" clearance between the side of the rocker and the hold down.

Could someone post a picture of their stock rockers and the clearances they have from the factory?
rocker arm alignment shaft.jpg
rocker arm alignment stem.jpg
 
From the looks of it, especially the center rocker in top photo, I'd say your looking at some worn out parts. Rockers, spacers, the whole thing works as a usable 'set'.

Might get away with replacing some worn parts...or, just get new assemblies. Go through each part, to see what you have. Up and down play on the rockers no prob, side to side (and locating), yes, problem.
 
I would like to have them more centered than what I'm seeing. They don't look factory do they.

With aftermarket, you might try exchanging the ones that aren't centered to another location on the head. I used a set of Crane adjustable rockers and they weren't all made the same. Took some swapping around before I was satisfied with their centering. Remembering you have right and left rockers and keeping the right ones on those valves only.

As far as your up and down play, bring #1 up to top dead center and see how much play you have , pushrod to rocker, on those valves. Useing hydraulic lifters you want some preload, meaning pushing the cup in the lifter down. .020 min to around .060. If you have play in the pushrod to lifter then you want to invest in a adjustable pushrod to check what lenth rod you need and order a correct lenth set. If that's the case, you want to check several over the whole setup to get an average lenth, having the valve that you are checking on the back side of the cam lobe.

Spacing between the rockers and hold downs can be adjusted with different size spacers and shims. Helps with centering.

What cam are you useing? Too much lift, you might want to consider adjustable rockers.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the feedback!
I was thinking worn parts too but I don't have any stockers laying around to compare them with. I did experiment with re-arranging the rockers - no success.... Shimming them back and forth only made some better and some worse... You can see the witness marks on the rocker tips, some are riding on half of the stem. Witness marks on the rocker shaft also show that the oiling hole isn't centered in the groove on the same rockers....

It was running a mild cam (close to magnum specs) - changing over to a larger cam (Hughes 216/220 hyd flat tappet). I have that one installed right now but not broken in yet so I am hesitant to do anything that involves assembly of valvetrain or rotation yet...

I am quickly coming to the conclusion that these rockers are aftermarket and poor quality.... anyone have a good used set for sale? Planning on going to Edelbrocks and new rockers this coming year so don't want to go too crazy... Maybe time to upgrade to those adjustable rockers now...
 
Cam Cathey said:
Thanks for the feedback!
I was thinking worn parts too but I don't have any stockers laying around to compare them with. I did experiment with re-arranging the rockers - no success.... Shimming them back and forth only made some better and some worse... You can see the witness marks on the rocker tips, some are riding on half of the stem. Witness marks on the rocker shaft also show that the oiling hole isn't centered in the groove on the same rockers....

It was running a mild cam (close to magnum specs) - changing over to a larger cam (Hughes 216/220 hyd flat tappet). I have that one installed right now but not broken in yet so I am hesitant to do anything that involves assembly of valvetrain or rotation yet...

I am quickly coming to the conclusion that these rockers are aftermarket and poor quality.... anyone have a good used set for sale? Planning on going to Edelbrocks and new rockers this coming year so don't want to go too crazy... Maybe time to upgrade to those adjustable rockers now...
Click to expand...
Try rocker arm rebuilders in anderson ca hard chrome shaft and blueprinted rockers- resonable
 
You more than likely have SB spacers there. They should be wider to position the rockers properly. The rocker arms look odd, kind of like a poorly made aftermarket type, but without a direct BB rocker comparison, it is hard to tell from the pic. Long spacer is 1.475" wide, and the short spacer is 1.025" wide. I measured 2 rocker arms, and one is 1.650" wide, and 1.665" wide. One is 3.400" long, and the other is 1.375" long. Spacer ring is 0.203" thick.
 
I agree with everything said above.

1. In your left picture, I "thought" the two pushrod dimples on the rockers for each cylinder should be "spread apart" from each other, not "towards each other" like is shown. Maybe these two rockers are backwards? It's been a while since I ran stamped rockers, so I could be wrong on this.
2. I believe it's very important not to "side load" the valves & have the rockers right over the valve tip. It seems like you'd bend valves and/or wear out your valve guides if they're not centered.
3. Hughes Engines sells a nice little set of hardened rocker shaft spacers. You can add them as needed to keep the rockers up against the spacers you have + the rocker shaft hold-downs.
4. I would suggest that you check all the rockers for clearance vs. the rocker shaft pedestals "just in case". I had to file down my pedestals, use Hughes spacer and file down my rocker shaft hold-downs to get my adjustable rockers to center. Good news is in the pictures you have, I don't "think" you'll have that problem, but I would still suggest you check.
 
You guys rock!
I agree - side loading valves is a bad idea!
I thought maybe the rockers may have been installed incorrectly too but .... Reversing them still puts one of them off.... hmmmm...

Pictures below show the gap I'm talking about and the wear pattern on the shaft - the rocker groove is not centered over the oiling hole....that doesn't look right.

Measured my parts - all mostly the same except the rockers: spacers = .200, hold downs = 1.475 & 1.025, rockers are close in width to the stockers at the top but they taper inward quite a bit near the part that would be contacting the spacers and hold downs ... taper shows pretty well in the picture. They all slide up and down the shaft (between the hold-downs) about .150 -see the picture- when tension is pulled on them (like the lifter/pushrod assembly). That doesn't sound right either... that would allow the rocker to wander back and forth on the rocker shaft during operation...

I think we have our winner - I think these rocker arms are my issue.

I'm really ready to fire it up and break in the cam but after looking these rockers over I think I will wait until I get new ones.
Thanks for your help guys!
I will post a follow up if I can find an affordable set of stockers to compare these to. Cost may drive me to rollers early - any suggestions for street use roller rockers?

bad rocker gap.JPG
bad rocker.JPG
 
Been many years since I've messed with stock rockers but those just do not look right to me. Mopar Performance offered heavy duty rockers years ago but not sure if they still do. In your first post, 2nd pic, the far right rocker looks very worn which will allow the one next to it to be off center. Does that look that way to anyone else?
 
You guys just kill me, haven’t really got into a RB(or any internal engine parts) in 20+ yrs. Those rockers just don’t look right for the offset of pushrod location. Maybe I just don’t look close enuf to pics sometimes?Excellant ideas from everyone. I feel a need coming on for a new thread about what we didn’t worry about yrs ago versus what has to be worried about now.
 
Summit Racing
Sealed Power R 828
Sealed Power R 829
Sealed Power RS 612 Shafts

Just installed these on my 432 Stroker
Used the factory retainers , new bolts and studs supplied with the Edelbrock Heads

Went together very nice , pre oiled and ready to go soon

Compared to my factory units , they look identical or maybe slightly heavier duty
I should have weighed them or measured thickness apples to apples

Don't forget those offset oiling holes on shafts go down , and 15 degree angle towards the valve springs / valves themselves
 
WOW! I thought they looked funny! Sad thing is that they don't show wear - they were made that way.... cheap junk. I found a usable set of OEM for 120.00 that I am going to go with (trying to save the green for the Edelbrocks and rollers).

I will post the comparison pics once they get here... I am sure the difference will be huge...

I bought this car from a "Chevy guy" knowing it would have issues stemming from lack of knowledge of Mopars. I'm starting to think I will have to follow the previous owners' every move and tear it apart for inspection....maybe that should be a thread..

- It's my second 70 Roadrunner (RM23N0E)- my first was a convertible (RM27N0G1782xx - yes, I remember the whole thing) - should have never let that one go.... I love these cars!
 
I'm know I'm going against the flow here, but I think you could shim those rockers (Hughes spacers) as long as:
a) everything clears the pedestals
b) the rockers don't have play on the shafts (I.D of rockers matches O.D. of shaft)

$8.50 - set of 50 (25 each .015" and .030")

http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/...Y2VycywgU2hpbSAmIEZhc3RlbmVycw==&partid=22138
hug1700.jpg


Hughes also has several thicker spacers (.125"-.825"), but they are a little more expensive. Like $3.00-$4.25 a piece

http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/...=&level2=U3BhY2VycywgU2hpbSAmIEZhc3RlbmVycw==
 
It says no shims and those Rockers are f d

It almost looks like they where cocked from preload or something and wearing on the shafts

Perfect example , look at his first post , second picture

Right Rocker - Far right one , bottom of rocker - The right side edge is perfectly uniform .
Left side edge is totally worn away

Now go to the same Right Rocker , however on left side of same picture .
The left side bottom edge is perfectly uniform , and the right side is totally worn away

Those are the same identical Right Side Rockers

They are garbage
 
Haha. Those look like small block rockers. When I first saw the pick I thought small block.
 
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