Cheapish 727 rebuild and headers for a 1964 polara

Athing · Jan 12, 2018

I’m 17 so I kind of budget oriented right now. I have a 1964 polara 4dr hardtop that I’m in the process of building a a 1965 383 for. I have the goals of 500-525hp, I have the plans for it already laid out and have talked to a local engine builder who’s helping me out and started on cleaning up the block and going to guide me in assembling. I need some help figuring out what is a good rebuild kit that I could get for my 727 since all I can really find is for 71 and later 727s, I’m never planning on putting any big tire or serious traction thru it so it’s not a serious trans build. Im looking to try to keep it under $800 since I was quoted $300 for labor if get the parts. I am going to use a Hughes performance 3000rpm stall converter tho. I’m also looking to use hedmen headers elite 78038 and I wanna know if anyone has any experience with these since I can’t find that many people saying anything about them. Also my rear end (just Incase anyone was wondering) is a 742 with 3.23 gear and converted to flange axles with a tru trac which surprising I’ve had no issues with noise that supposedly people have. Sorry for writing so much it’s just I wanted to make sure that I have all the info that’s needed and I’m still pretty new.

dukeboy_318 · Jan 12, 2018

Athing said:
I’m 17 so I kind of budget oriented right now. I have a 1964 polara 4dr hardtop that I’m in the process of building a a 1965 383 for. I have the goals of 500-525hp, I have the plans for it already laid out and have talked to a local engine builder who’s helping me out and started on cleaning up the block and going to guide me in assembling. I need some help figuring out what is a good rebuild kit that I could get for my 727 since all I can really find is for 71 and later 727s, I’m never planning on putting any big tire or serious traction thru it so it’s not a serious trans build. Im looking to try to keep it under $800 since I was quoted $300 for labor if get the parts. I am going to use a Hughes performance 3000rpm stall converter tho. I’m also looking to use hedmen headers elite 78038 and I wanna know if anyone has any experience with these since I can’t find that many people saying anything about them. Also my rear end (just Incase anyone was wondering) is a 742 with 3.23 gear and converted to flange axles with a tru trac which surprising I’ve had no issues with noise that supposedly people have. Sorry for writing so much it’s just I wanted to make sure that I have all the info that’s needed and I’m still pretty new.

do you have a pushbutton trans?

Athing · Jan 12, 2018

dukeboy_318 · Jan 12, 2018

Are you going to keep the pushbutton or convert it to floor shift?

Athing · Jan 12, 2018

Want to keep it push button because eventually in couple years I wanna put an a833 from passon in it and I don’t wanna make it a manual valve body.

PP1RT · Jan 12, 2018

For budget friendly headers check out Summit Racing. They have their own branded headers that have the heavier 3/8 flanges. We got a set for my sons Camaro and they look identical to Hookers but a lot cheaper. I haven't looked to see if they have a set to fit your car yet. Check it out

dvw · Jan 12, 2018

Push button is very similar to the later trans. The input shaft, sealing rings, and reaction support are different. Obviously the output shaft , tail shaft housing , and valve body are physically different. You may want to upgrade to the 67 and up input shaft and reaction support, (along with a front drum if you go 71 and up). This will allow 67 and up torque converter. Trans parts online has what you need.
Doug

threewood · Jan 12, 2018

It is hard to find a single kit to do the 62-65 transmissions as the kits almost always omit the parking cable housing, bushings, extension housing gasket or filter. Here is a kit you can get ( I have one of their kits in my GTX, no problems) https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-A727...ash=item3cd97bf1cf:g:iroAAOSwPcVVgr5M&vxp=mtr It comes with the extension bushing and pump housing bushing. But, you will also need a park cable housing gasket...https://www.ebay.com/itm/TORQUEFLIT...ash=item33d394cbb0:g:sMoAAOSwZkJUR~41&vxp=mtr and the correct extension housing gasket. . Plus you will need the correct two hole filter (these transmissions use a front AND rear pump, the rear pump making it able to push start in drive)

Ski 61701 · Jan 12, 2018

Kudos to you for taking on this project at a young age. Sounds like you have the motor aspect figured out, I am curious what your receipe is for a 500hp 383 is.

Something else to consider is the push button cables was the car a 318 car or 361 383 car originally? Reason why I inquire is the lengths of the cables are different and if you plan on running headers the cables might not be long enough and if the hit the header and melt the plastic coating you're gonna have trans fluid leaks.

Another place to look at headers is Schumacher creative services out of Seattle he makes headers motor mounts and has a swap guide info to guide you through things.

Not to be a buzz kill here, but 500hp even 400hp in these old boats can be a handful to drive especially when it comes to braking. Have you given any thought to putting larger diameter torsion bars in and or either 11x3 front drums or a disc brake conversion kit on your car?

I would hate to see you go through all of this work only to not be able to stop or perform an emergency maneuer to avoid an accident.

Just something to think about, looking forward to seeing pics and hearing about the progress.

Steve009 · Jan 12, 2018

What’s the plans for the engine to get 500-550hp? Not saying it’s impossible but some serious $$$ will be needed for that kind of hp out of a B engine. U planning a stroker or some big aluminum heads? With the usual headers, intake, carb, cam, and ignition upgrades that put mine around 400hp with 906 heads. I Moved onto a stroker for the big hp numbers. Just something to consider before investing in parts for your engine.

Athing · Jan 12, 2018

Ski 61701 said:
Kudos to you for taking on this project at a young age. Sounds like you have the motor aspect figured out, I am curious what your receipe is for a 500hp 383 is.

Something else to consider is the push button cables was the car a 318 car or 361 383 car originally? Reason why I inquire is the lengths of the cables are different and if you plan on running headers the cables might not be long enough and if the hit the header and melt the plastic coating you're gonna have trans fluid leaks.

Another place to look at headers is Schumacher creative services out of Seattle he makes headers motor mounts and has a swap guide info to guide you through things.

Not to be a buzz kill here, but 500hp even 400hp in these old boats can be a handful to drive especially when it comes to braking. Have you given any thought to putting larger diameter torsion bars in and or either 11x3 front drums or a disc brake conversion kit on your car?

I would hate to see you go through all of this work only to not be able to stop or perform an emergency maneuer to avoid an accident.

Just something to think about, looking forward to seeing pics and hearing about the progress.

It is a 361 car so I guess I’ll be fine on that aspect, and I am putting a front disc conversion on it, I put in a dual master when I rebuilt the brakes not realizing it was for a disc/drum or disc/disc conversion so it’s a little sketchy as is in braking I’m just waiting until it’s warmer up here in ny to do that and go thru the bushings in the front since there on the edge of their life. I will torsion bars too. For the engine combo I’m doing stock crank and rods, pistons I’m discussing with the guy helping since at first I was going to be at 11.2 to 1 and he thought I should bring it down to 10.75 to 1. edelbrock rpm performer 440 75cc chambers. Hughes solid flat tappet, going to call Hughes when I get the heads at end of February hopefully, just saving up then buying things a little at time. I have 2 edelbrock dp4bs that where given to me, I may go with them and try to port them or find a used rpm preformer air gap. I have a Holley 4160 750cfm I rebuilt that I may try to convert to a 4150 but I think it’s too little of a carb so i may go swap meet hunting for a old Holley 850 double pumper and just rebuild that. The block it’s just get cleaned up zero decked and bored hopefully .30 over maybe more since it’s super worn I’m going to know by next week. The goal is a 7000 rpm 500 hp 383. I know I’m a little ambitious but what’s wrong with that.

Ski 61701 · Jan 12, 2018

Thats good it was a 361 car, no need to worry about motor mounts, and you should have thicker torsion bars so that is a plus, but they do wear out.

Check out Dr. Diff , Cass is a stand up guy he has kits at different levels for disc brake conversions pretty reasonable too. Takes the guess work out of things save you some grief.

Depending on fuel, I'd stick to10.1 max that way you can actually run a higher rate advance in your distributor. Nothing worse than choking the engine by retarding the ignition, and not taking advantage of the hipo parts to their fullest.

I live relatively close to Hughes, they are decent guys. Its always fun to stop in and listen to them try and help people out via the phone. Some of the questions and I can see how patience wears thin on. Sugestion to you is be totally honest with them about what you want the motor to do and the rest of your combo eg trans rear gear tire size etc.

Dont forget your rocker arms, and you'll need to get a couple of checking pushrods for proper length. Your machinist will be able explain the needs of them to you.

You are gonna have a perfect, safe sleeper car once its done

Athing · Jan 12, 2018

Here’s some pics of the car and the 383 when I was tearing it down

Ill keep you posted on everything. The reason it’s pretty high comp is here on Long Island 93 or e85 is available at nearly every pump it’s pretty ridiculous so that’s why.

I’ll make sure when I call Hughes I have everything laid out before and be sure to be honest.

threewood · Jan 12, 2018

Shoot, I would kill for some 93 or even non ethanol 91. We have crap 91, no ethanol free anywhere, and I am running 10.4 to 1 with aluminum heads. Seems to work.

miller · Jan 12, 2018

All sounds pretty much high. Don't mean it can't be done, though.

Back to your 727...best source, local or otherwise, get a master overhaul kit for it. Any good with your hands?? Sure, takes a little work, but if you go about it right, since it's your first one, 727s aren't that hard to build. Even just straight up.
Point on that, is, besides learning what you can tear up in there, you have a better understanding of it all, AND will probably will get you by, on $300-400. (Mine was about $350, including the $100 for the core!)
Or, your going to pay someone, probably high $$s, to do it for you.

A 727, even an earlier model like your's, built straight up, will do what you want it to do.

Athing · Jan 12, 2018

I was quoted by a local guy by me for 200-300 for labor if I bring him all the parts needed. I can’t do where I live right now because I barely convinced my mom (remember I’m 17) to allow me to build a engine in my tiny garage that is also my laundry room. I think for being in the trans for $350 to 400 wouldn’t be too bad. I would’ve also like to done but I don’t have any of the speciality tools for that and neither does my neighbor who ran a shop out his house for 40+years and who I borrow tools from time to time. Nice idea but not pratical where I live.

miller · Jan 12, 2018

Kudos, Athing! Think I was there, many moons ago. (I'll do a groan here, HA!)

Have a great machine to start with...so, take it slow...and, learn as you go. You've got alot of road ahead of you.

For what it's worth, the more you know, about what your fooling with, better off you'll be!

dukeboy_318 · Jan 12, 2018

Athing said:
I was quoted by a local guy by me for 200-300 for labor if I bring him all the parts needed. I can’t do where I live right now because I barely convinced my mom (remember I’m 17) to allow me to build a engine in my tiny garage that is also my laundry room. I think for being in the trans for $350 to 400 wouldn’t be too bad. I would’ve also like to done but I don’t have any of the speciality tools for that and neither does my neighbor who ran a shop out his house for 40+years and who I borrow tools from time to time. Nice idea but not pratical where I live.

Not any real special tools needed for a 727,

Dodge 330 · Jan 14, 2018

Hedman 78030 for headers. They are cheap and drop into our early B bodies.

Google the Torqueflite book by Carl Munroe, read it and rebuild it yourself. Transtar makes a good kit. You'll need a good set of snap ring pliers. I went with a later 727 just for the ease of having more torque converter choices, valvebody and was going with aftermarket shifter anyway.

64Belvedere · Jan 23, 2018

I tried the Hedman 78030 headers with my 400 block and 727. Never again. they hit everywhere Starter, Pan rail, trans pan rail. Forget power steering with them. They work with RB such as 440 but with a low deck, Get ready to re engineer them. In the end, we couldn't get them to seal. This was in a 64 Belvedere with a 72 block and trans out of a Newport. I eventually went back to manifolds. My $.02 is save up and spend the money on proper headers. You'll thank yourself later.

Cheapish 727 rebuild and headers for a 1964 polara

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