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The Willomet Charger

...how much extra weight do you think you'll be adding as an end product with the beefing up of the chassis? ...With you running a 305/30/19 in the front, what is your plans for the rear? Going with a square set for handling or going to add a touch wider out back?
Overall, it's about the same amount you'd net by installing a chassis from Roadster Shop, Art Morrison, or Schwartz. Those are all made from .120 wall tubing similar in size to what I've got here. If I had to ballpark how much weight is added over a purely factory setup - no torque boxes, subframe connectors, etc - I think something close to 225 lbs sounds about right.

To be specific, my rocker beam assemblies aren't light - about 44 lbs each. Most of that is made up from the 76" 4x3 beam itself, and I could have shaved 2 lbs from each assembly by using 12 ga on the inner rocker plating, but I decided .120 was a slightly safer choice. Also, there are some weight savings in converting from stamped steel to structural tubing. The factory rear spring mount that connects the frame rail to the rocker is made from a couple of layers of stamped 1/8" and is substantially heavier than the 4x4 and 4x2 torque box I've constructed. I suspect the front rocker to rail integration will net similar savings. Applications like those are where the structural tubing really shows its value, and those weight savings can be applied elsewhere. For me, that will be frame overlays.

Related to tire size, I'm planning for at least a 305 rear, and likely a 325. Even with the planned suspension updates, a setback engine and trans, and an overall lighter powertrain, the weight bias will still be in the front. With the power I've planned, I'll need a bit more footprint out back. I'm really excited to get into that part of the build.

David
 
Perhaps i missed where you have mentioned it, as i skimmed through some of the reading. What is planned for the drivetrain? Guessing something along the lines of a newer 6.4 hemi with a 6 speed? Perhaps Hellcat crate?
 
The car will have an LS.

Recognizing that’s not the preferred power plant around here, I offer the story about how I came to that engine.

To start, this car has been built on a budget (to the extent that any project car flirts with the term budget) which excludes stroking a large check for a chassis, body work, or a crate engine. I can afford to build everything myself, spending slowly on raw materials and individual parts rather than buying assembled stuff. I will buy the Magnum Force front suspension, and probably a torque arm/watts link from Chris Alston’s Chassisworks, as there is a high amount of value and safety built into those suspension designs.

I bought the car as a rolling chassis, with no engine or trans, and you can track how I came to understand the amount of work required to make this into a well handling and balanced machine. While I take a lot of inspiration from high dollar builds, I have no illusions about what I can afford, and I do not go into debt for car projects. Funding this car is how I came to start my small fab shop.

As I hunted for an engine, I had two preferred options - a wrecked hellcat (unicorn) and a gen 3 hemi. Using my network, I looked at a handful of 6.1s, but they either had cut harnesses, sludge in the pan, or were just too expensive. I’m patient, and have tried to follow the advice to, “wait for the deal to come to you.” I kept hunting.

While doing work for a client, he had a bill he couldn’t pay. I break materials out from labor, and he couldn’t pay the last part of his bill, which was about $250. For me, that’s not insignificant, but his circumstances were difficult and he offered to make a trade if I would complete the job. He’s a GM guy, and had a camaro that was languishing, and an 03 LQ4 that wasn’t going anywhere soon. I finished the job, and took the engine as payment. I’m basically into it for $250 plus a few hours of my time.

The engine is in very good shape - no ridge at the top of the cylinders. The pan was clean, plugs were clean, and the bearings look new. It didn’t take me long to get my mind right about an LS in the Charger, and I’ve not looked back. Since then, I’ve acquired a full harness as takeoff from a friend’s LQ9 build, and a nearly new 1.9L Eaton supercharger from an LSA. The latter was headed to the scrap heap for a rattling coupler. That’s a $20 part, so I snagged it for almost nothing, cleaned it up, and now I have boost in the build.

The LQ4 will get a forged rotating assembly stroked to 409 cubes. I will spend a little on the top end, which will be all LS9, as the CNC ported heads from GM come loaded and ready for 15 psi of boost, and I’ll probably keep the 1.9L to 10 and under. Texas Speed has a good cam selection, and I don’t need anything too radical to make power and idle well. There are 8 different oil pan profiles to choose from, I’ll probably fab my own headers, and strip my harness to use the LQ4 ECU. Power target is 650, which should be very attainable without running on the ragged edge, or relying on 93 octane alone. My TR6060 from the 2011 Camaro will bolt right up.

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More than anything else, this car is being built to drive. This combination will do just that.

David
 
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An LS engine in a '70 Charger ? You are kidding right ?
 
Being the unbiased car guy that i am, and the amount of projects that i have done, i can definately see the benifits of going LS-series with this build. For whatever reason (to me) Mopar engine builds seem to be a touch more expensive than the other makes. I have done a few LS swaps myself and totally understand where the desire, and ease of parts plays into this.

My other project power plant may look familiar.

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An LS engine in a '70 Charger ? You are kidding right ?
Engine swaps of all kind define hot rodding... it’s the very foundation of the hobby. The LS platform is a great one for these types of builds. Lots of LS swapped Mustangs out there and the Ford purists have the same reaction as you. Undying brand loyalty is a lot like having your head in the sand and missing the big picture...
 
Engine swaps of all kind define hot rodding... it’s the very foundation of the hobby. The LS platform is a great one for these types of builds. Lots of LS swapped Mustangs out there and the Ford purists have the same reaction as you. Undying brand loyalty is a lot like having your head in the sand and missing the big picture...

First off, I'm not trying to start an argument in any way, shape or form.

I get the fact that the GM LS engine is a great platform...cheap, easy, bulletproof bottom ends, make lots of power....just not in a '70 Charger. Fox body Mustangs are a dime a dozen and they made 3 million of them.

I am a die-hard Mopar guy & I bleed Hemi Orange blood. That's why I joined a "Mopar" forum. I wouldn't expect to buy GM parts in the FOR SALE section of this site, so why would I want to see a Chevy powered Mopar in a build section ? I would never put a Chevy in a Mopar...even if it was free.

When it comes time to sell the car, Chevy guys are not looking for Chargers and real Mopar guys aren't going to want a GM powered Mopar. Probably get a ¼ of what he has invested in it.

My .02
 
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An LS engine in a '70 Charger ? You are kidding right ?
No.
...For whatever reason (to me) Mopar engine builds seem to be a touch more expensive than the other makes...
Understandably, since there's something like 20 years of production for the LS. That's hard to compete with in terms of aftermarket support.
Engine swaps of all kind define hot rodding...
I've come to feel similarly, but part of that definitely comes from me just getting comfortable with a non-traditional engine swap.
First off, I'm not trying to start an argument in any way, shape or form.

I get the fact that the GM LS engine is a great platform...cheap, easy, bulletproof bottom ends, make lots of power....just not in a '70 Charger. Fox body Mustangs are a dime a dozen and they made 3 million of them.

I am a die-hard Mopar guy & I bleed Hemi Orange blood. I would never put a Chevy in a Mopar...even if it was free.

When it comes time to sell the car, Chevy guys are not looking for Chargers and real Mopar guys aren't going to want a GM powered Mopar. Probably get a ¼ of what he has invested in it.
No argument perceived, and I appreciate your comments.

Working on other people's cars and trucks these last few years has made me a lot less brand loyal, and while I understand the position of avoiding a free engine swap because it doesn't satisfy that kind of loyalty, I am not able to afford such a luxury. At least not right now. You're also right that there's a substantially narrower market for cars built to a specific owner's taste. Fortunately, this car will not be for sale. I'll spare the details, but I'm not a buyer-seller type. I get a car, and keep it...forever. This one is mine, and that's a luxury I can afford. Quite frankly, if I find a wrecked hellcat engine that's in my range, I'll swap it in "tomorrow", but the same would hold true for a wrecked LT4 or a V10 from an E60 M5 or a Viper V10.

My only loyalty is to power and speed...and my budget. But, it took me a while to figure that out.

David
 
So we agree to disagree.

It is YOUR car...you do what you want with it. Nice fab work by the way. Good luck with it.
 
The LS engine is a great package - but with all that work put into it you can find a gen III Hemi - theres a Hellcat 6.2 with Nag1 on my local craigslist with 151 miles on it...

I see 6.1 and 6.4s all over the place. If you're going into the engine anyway you can pick up a 5.7 Hemi, stroker kit, and build it for about the same as an LS.

Ultimately - your car - either way it'll be what you want it to be
 
Good Memorial Day to y'all.

I took off a couple of days to be with family, and got back out into the shop today.

Shaving weight.
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This firewall has been on the hit list for a while. Originally a non-AC car, someone patched in the AC section, sparing all technique.
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Lots of space to start integrating the front rails to the rockers.
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Similar to the rear frame, I’ll have to trim a good bit to make the bottom flush with the rockers, but there’s loads of room to add to the profile at the top of the rails.
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Got to order some 5x4 for the front “torque boxes”, and I’ll be back at it. But first, a very busy week of work.

David
 
AN LS motor?

I'm un-watching this thread. Nice work on the project and good luck.
 
I drew up my plan for the front torque boxes, and since they don't make 5x4 rectangle tubing in 11ga, I'll end up fabricating my own. The local metal shop can shear the component plates pretty quickly, and that's time efficient since work is nuts this week. I should have it all in stock by Friday.

Reading other threads and looking over a bunch of non-unibody pro-touring roll cages, I wonder if I can accomplish my strength and rigidity goals with just a b-pillar main hoop, rear down bars, and easy ingress/egress door bars in addition to a well structured firewall that ties into the rails and front torque boxes. There's no deep ET goal (11.5+), as I’m more interested in duplicating 2015 Z28 levels of performance and handling.

Open to suggestions/comments - how necessary are a halo, front down bars, and dash bar to achieving ingot levels of rigidity? I’m down for the fab work, but I’m always thinking of value for time.

David
 
As far as your cage goes, from my own personal experience, your dash bar and halo are more for crash protection than they are for an rigidity. If you do your B pillar hoop and run it extremely close to the b pillar that you can weld the two together that will give you a lot of extra chassis rigidity. Especially being how much stronger your making the frame portion of this build, i would personally just do a four point (with maybe and x-bar) like your thinking and go with it. Unless you plan on adding a tone of tie bars (through the firewall and to the front fender area) I dont think you would be gaining as much as you would be spending/gaining in weight.
 
I just picked up the plate for the front torque boxes along with the subframe connector tubing. Steel has become stupid expensive.

This small collection was a tidy $300.
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That is all.

David
 
Front torque boxes underway.
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Lots of fitting and integrating still to go. The heat index was 107F in Dallas today, so progress was a bit slow.

David
 
Number two torque box built, both rails trimmed. Here’s how they go together.

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David
 
Hard to get both torque boxes in one photo with all the bracing, so here’s a short video.



David
 
Torque boxes welded and blended.
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Next up: square the rails and rockers; tack these in.

David
 
I spent the evening finely trimming the front rails so the torque boxes are square from the rocker to the rail and leave no gaps.

I’ve got some figuring to do on the plates and overlays that will tie the 1970 14ga frame rails to the new 11ga torque boxes. It will probably be 3 vertical plates - one on each side of the existing rail, and a third on the inside that will make a direct tie from the shock tower to the torque box. Got to put it on paper, and then bend tech.

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David
 
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