Motor Runs Hot

Ranger16 said:

You said "Thermostats only affect warm up time". IF that were true, what is the purpose of using a 160, 180 or a 190? The only reason for changing thermostats would have to be to chang the warm up time. The idea is to reach operating temperature as quick as possible. Comprehension?
See if you can comprehend this (from Stant). It's really not that hard to understand. I doubt you'll find anyone here that will agree with you.
What is a thermostat? What purpose does it serve?
The thermostat has two important jobs to perform; to accelerate engine warm-up and to regulate the engine's operating temperature."

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I stand by my original statement, but I like this description too, if modified properly to read "....to regulate the engine's MINIMUM operating temperature".
Again, quoting myself: the engine is going to reach whatever operating temperature it's going to regardless of thermostat rated opening temperature.

You did actually comprehend the OP's original issue, right?
He's not asking about how to accelerate his engines' warm-up, but rather to asking for help in regulating the engine's operating temperature.
He's currently running a 160 thermostat but seeing operating temps of 210-215F.
Proves the point that his thermostat in his engine isn't either a)helping his situation or b)regulating his engines' operating temperature.
A thermostat can certainly establish a minimum operating temperature but don't do a darn thing to actually cool an engine, unless one buys into the theory that the "restricted" opening (orifice) of a thermostat is necessary to slow the flow of water through the cooling system - and if that's the case, a simple orifice plate can be installed in lieu of a thermostat to get the same benefit.

Either way, a thermostat isn't going to help our OP in his dilemma - and his issue is far from unusual with these old beasts.

Ron H said:

Seems like it could idle all day or low speeds no problem its when out on the highway for a time that does it. That's why reckon the higher gears cranking upper 2,000's after 30 or so miles is too much for cooling system to handle.

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Exactly what mine was doing before it got "cured" - it built up what I'll call "residual" heat from highway driving that once the car came to a stop (or even just to lower speeds, like coming down off a highway to town) the operating temp would climb to nervous levels.
Does yours have a 22" or a 26" radiator?

Doesn't seem to be enough yet as after some highway running the temp still pops out at the T of 210-215. Radiator was boiled/flushed, new 160 thermo installed. The rad is original two-core


I think you answered your own question

I know you said boiled flushed , but you also said original two core

And if it’s at 215 down the highway , the radiator is not doing the job period

Going down the highway you have all the air you need going thru that radiator

If it’s the factory radiator and you want to keep it , have it re cored

If you don’t care , look at a new radiator

I have just the opposite problem

Gets hot at idle or stopped traffic for an extended period of time

High flow 180 degree thermostat

Anyways prior to the new radiator my factory 22" going down the highway with this new motor 195/200 degrees / 210 in the city

Installed a Brand new 22” Wizards Cooling Radiator in my 71 Bee , 432 Stroker with 10.5 Compression I would say 450-475 HP

Yesterday in 97 degree WI , all day long running 180 degrees on the highway , in the city , never above 180 and I run the factory ralleye gauge along with an auto meter

Only thing I changed was the radiator nothing else

However any extended period of time sitting at idle it slowly creeps up , 10-15 minutes it slowly hits 200/210 and that’s about it

Have the factory shroud mounted , along with Mopar performance viscous 5 blade fan package

Have been playing with Hayden fan clutches to no improvement

Fan blade seems to bee pulling serious air thru the radiator at idle , pulls a couple rags to the front of radiator and keeps them there

Anyways

Bee1971 said:

I have just the opposite problem

Gets hot at idle or stopped traffic for an extended period of time

High flow 180 degree thermostat

Anyways prior to the new radiator my factory 22" going down the highway with this new motor 195/200 degrees / 210 in the city

Installed a Brand new 22” Wizards Cooling Radiator in my 71 Bee , 432 Stroker with 10.5 Compression I would say 450-475 HP

Yesterday in 97 degree WI , all day long running 180 degrees on the highway , in the city , never above 180 and I run the factory ralleye gauge along with an auto meter

Only thing I changed was the radiator nothing else

However any extended period of time sitting at idle it slowly creeps up , 10-15 minutes it slowly hits 200/210 and that’s about it

Have the factory shroud mounted , along with Mopar performance viscous 5 blade fan package

Have been playing with Hayden fan clutches to no improvement

Fan blade seems to bee pulling serious air thru the radiator at idle , pulls a couple rags to the front of radiator and keeps them there

Anyways

View attachment 610889 View attachment 610890

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I'd say you're after the right culprit then - if there's enough airflow going down the highway to keep her cool, then it's a matter of getting enough airflow through the radiator when sitting.
Pretty common problem with these old beasts, really.
Shroud, high flow fan and even in some cases, making sure the fan clutch is in top notch shape - or as I did, totally eliminate it.

moparedtn said:

You did actually comprehend the OP's original issue, right?
He's not asking about how to accelerate his engines' warm-up, but rather to asking for help in regulating the engine's operating temperature.

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My discussion with you is not about the OP's question. It was about your comment that a thermostat has but one and only one function.

If you bothered to read the quote from Stant that I posted, you'd see that you are at odds with Stant as well, but what do they know. You should probably contact them and advise them of their error. I'm sure they would greatly appreciate it.

My apologies to the OP for taking this thread off coarse, but misinformation should be corrected.

moparedtn said:

I'd say you're after the right culprit then - if there's enough airflow going down the highway to keep her cool, then it's a matter of getting enough airflow through the radiator when sitting.
Pretty common problem with these old beasts, really.
Shroud, high flow fan and even in some cases, making sure the fan clutch is in top notch shape - or as I did, totally eliminate it.

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Yep per

Still have my factory fixed 7 blade original that came with the car

That might bee my next little project

Appreciate the advice and while my beefed poly still runs hotter than it should maybe around 10 degrees (hitting 200 area) some of the tricks have helped. Aside from the 7 blade and shroud mentioned before, I reduced the coolant mix so now running maybe 35 or so % anti freeze and added water-wetter. I have to think I should go to a larger capacity radiator maybe a winter project. I had a long run today around a 100 miles and it maintained meaning not climbing further than indicated and is a pretty hot day here in the dairy state. Here's what I know or have been told about thermo's: A higher temp one is nice for colder weather to get motor warmed up sooner and also heat inside the cab sooner. As said, it means squat on the ultimate operating temp. Running without a therm has been ill-advised especially with a higher flow pump as coolant, without any restriction thru therm, rushes coolant through the rad faster not giving the rad time to do its cooling work...

Wow, forgot all about this thread,lol. Yeah Ron, a 160 won’t work too good in the winter in ur area(not a bit). I have never ran a 190 & won’t do it. My temps are fine, but the aftermarket (electric) fans leave me leary. But I’m old school.

Won't happen if Hayden thermal is working properly. They are hard to diagnose. Replacing it solved my extended idle creep up. Always use a IFR to be sipure of actual temps.

My 2 cents: Run a 160 deg hi-flow stat, get a larger core radiator, and make sure the fan is no more than 1"from the radiator core. Rad being to small is your biggest problem currently.

While ''boiling and flushing' can be good...removing the radiator tanks and ''rodding out the core' is the only way to guarantee an old radiator is flowing at it's max capacity.

Do you still have the hood to radiator seal? It does help.

Another often overlooked cause of cooling issues is timing(not enough or improper curve) so make sure you're getting enough advance with your upgraded cam or you'll be chasing your tail. Here is a great tidbit on adjusting thermo fan clutches too, not sure if it applies here but good info nonetheless
http://midamericachevelles.com/tech/fan_clutch_adjust.pdf

Ron H said:

This is part of a long saga as I posted about this a few months ago on my built up poly on my '63 Fury. I added a 7-blade and found an old OEM shroud I refurbished and installed. I'd say that dropped the temp around 10-degrees.

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I would expect that the shroud and 7-blade fan only makes a real difference at low speeds.

Ron H said:

Doesn't seem to be enough yet as after some highway running the temp still pops out at the T of 210-215.

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This and another post suggest that your engine runs at 210-215° on the highway and eventually comes down to a temperature within 20° of the thermostat's rating at low speeds. This suggests that your radiator needs more heat transfer capacity.

Ron H said:

Radiator was boiled/flushed

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What method was used to do this? It's possible that your rad boil/flush still left scale in the radiator tubes that is impeding coolant flow. Try a flush with citric or oxalic acid.
Visit Cooling System to see the results of a citric acid flush.

Ron H said:

new 160 thermo installed.

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As stated earlier, a thermostat controls the minimum temperature at which the engine operates and regulates the engine's operating temperature. Heat transfer improves with a greater difference between the air temperature and the coolant temperature. A 160° thermostat should be fully open by 180° so your 210-215° means that a 195° (fully open by 215°) thermostat will run just as hot.

Ron H said:

The rad is original two-core and wonder if adding an electric fan in front would do the chore or if I need to look at a larger rad?

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Since your car is running hot at highway speeds, there should be plenty of air flow through the rad so an electric fan won't help.

An internal combustion engine is only about 25% efficient at converting fuel energy into useful work and your cooling system has to reject about 30% of fuel's energy as waste heat through the radiator. Your original rad may be sized for the heat production of the original low output engine and could be unable to keep up with the extra waste-heat from higher fuel consumption. Proper tuning (fuel mixture, timing advance, etc) will make your engine more fuel-efficient and generate less waste heat.

I upgraded to an HEI Ignition System this year, which has allowed me to run leaner fuel mixtures. I've found that optimizing my timing advance and cruising fuel mixture has significantly improved my highway fuel economy.

Ron H said:

Part of the issue could be I have the heater core bypassed as I've had for 20 years.

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Unless you're getting a lot of heat leaking out of your heater during the summer, there is nothing to be gained by bypassing the heater core. I would not plug the heater core's connections on the engine because heater core flow helps with water jacket circulation during warm-up. Having a working heater will also help you to enjoy driving your car during spring and fall in WI.

fjr said:

I would expect that the shroud and 7-blade fan only makes a real difference at low speeds.


This and another post suggest that your engine runs at 210-215° on the highway and eventually comes down to a temperature within 20° of the thermostat's rating at low speeds. This suggests that your radiator needs more heat transfer capacity.


What method was used to do this? It's possible that your rad boil/flush still left scale in the radiator tubes that is impeding coolant flow. Try a flush with citric or oxalic acid.
Visit Cooling System to see the results of a citric acid flush.


As stated earlier, a thermostat controls the minimum temperature at which the engine operates and regulates the engine's operating temperature. Heat transfer improves with a greater difference between the air temperature and the coolant temperature. A 160° thermostat should be fully open by 180° so your 210-215° means that a 195° (fully open by 215°) thermostat will run just as hot.


Since your car is running hot at highway speeds, there should be plenty of air flow through the rad so an electric fan won't help.

An internal combustion engine is only about 25% efficient at converting fuel energy into useful work and your cooling system has to reject about 30% of fuel's energy as waste heat through the radiator. Your original rad may be sized for the heat production of the original low output engine and could be unable to keep up with the extra waste-heat from higher fuel consumption. Proper tuning (fuel mixture, timing advance, etc) will make your engine more fuel-efficient and generate less waste heat.

I upgraded to an HEI Ignition System this year, which has allowed me to run leaner fuel mixtures. I've found that optimizing my timing advance and cruising fuel mixture has significantly improved my highway fuel economy.


Unless you're getting a lot of heat leaking out of your heater during the summer, there is nothing to be gained by bypassing the heater core. I would not plug the heater core's connections on the engine because heater core flow helps with water jacket circulation during warm-up. Having a working heater will also help you to enjoy driving your car during spring and fall in WI.

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I encountered a frustrating problem after rebuilding the heater valve years ago. Friggin thing would not stop leaking! I figured it had to be the O-ring and tried 3 or 4 with no difference. So given I only really would like to use a heat/defrost a few days a year since it's stored (WI) bypassed it. Fellow member sent me what he says is the correct ring; but haven't tackled installing it. Thanks!

furyus said:

Do you still have the hood to radiator seal? It does help.

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Veeerrry interesting you mention this. I had replaced all seals/rubber during resto and in one of the kits there's a "hood to radiator" seal that's still in the bag. There wasn't one on the car when I bought it 23 years ago. If ya could maybe send me a pic of yours that'll give me a reference on installing this. Thanks!

Ron, row of holes to rearward of hood latch? Should line up w/core support.

Ron H said:

Veeerrry interesting you mention this. I had replaced all seals/rubber during resto and in one of the kits there's a "hood to radiator" seal that's still in the bag. There wasn't one on the car when I bought it 23 years ago. If ya could maybe send me a pic of yours that'll give me a reference on installing this. Thanks!

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Ron,
Here's the one on my car, which is a 'wide' one. They also offer a narrow one...The holes are in the top of the radiator support.

coloradodave said:

Ron,
Here's the one on my car, which is a 'wide' one. They also offer a narrow one...The holes are in the top of the radiator support.
View attachment 636032

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Your looks similar to mine though like you said it's wider as I see it lays over top of rad. I've posted couple pics here. As you see there are no holes on the support bar so my Fury must not have come with this seal (a lowly Fury/318). In the other pic I've laid it out as I think I view how yours is installed. As Furyus mentioned I see how this seal can redirect air closing the gap over the top of the rad..