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Block Strengthening?

YellowDodge67

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Location
Glen Burnie, Maryland
Looking to start building a new engine for my car soon. I would like to get an aftermarket iron block but they seem to be far and few between at the moment and aluminum is just out of the budget. My question is how high can you fill a factory block and still street drive it with an oil cooler? I'm trying to resist block failure at higher horsepower levels the best I can with a factory block. I've heard a girdle helps a lot too. If it matters I am planning on keeping it stock displacement, no long stroker cranks for me. Any recommendations on good companies for crank and rods?

Thanks for any input,
Jack
 
It's as much about rpm as horsepower
400 0r 440?
build for no detonation
so head and piston coordination is mandatory
what kind of torque curve
 
whats your horse power goal?

My goal is mid to high 9sec range, car weighs 4500lbs with me in it. My calculator/guesstimater says it takes about 957whp @ 4500lbs to run a 9.80 or 850whp @ 4000lbs to do the same 9.80. So basically 850-1000whp is my goal which I'm guessing is 1200-1300ish at the crank. Alot to ask for out of a factory block.
 
We run a filled stock 360 block with an oil cooler, girdle and the stock unturned cast crank, and a 76mm turbo. filled about 2" from the top. Hasn't shown any overheat issues in over 5 years. Requires main bearing replacement as maintenance. Has been 9.55@141@ 3750. I;m assuming your thinking turbo with stock displacement. The HP numbers you are looking for are lofty N/A, even for a race motor. A turbo with a 400 block. Even then it better be good stuff. My 572, 15-1, .800" roller, Mega Block N/A race motor doesn't make a 1000.
Doug
 
We run a filled stock 360 block with an oil cooler, girdle and the stock unturned cast crank, and a 76mm turbo. filled about 2" from the top. Hasn't shown any overheat issues in over 5 years. Requires main bearing replacement as maintenance. Has been 9.55@141@ 3750. I;m assuming your thinking turbo with stock displacement. The HP numbers you are looking for are lofty N/A, even for a race motor. A turbo with a 400 block. Even then it better be good stuff. My 572, 15-1, .800" roller, Mega Block N/A race motor doesn't make a 1000.
Doug

Car is currently a running and driving 440 with a s475 on it. Definitely not N/A lol. How often are you doing the main bearings? Is replacing them so much related to the filled block (excessive heat?) Or is probably something else?
 
Car is currently a running and driving 440 with a s475 on it. Definitely not N/A lol. How often are you doing the main bearings? Is replacing them so much related to the filled block (excessive heat?) Or is probably something else?
This time 100 pases. Theyre not horible. More polished looking. Clearance is ok .003". Oil temps,stay good. My bet is it needs more oil pressure (it only runs 50@6000). We're actually amazed it hasn't broke the block or crank. Doing a Drag Week style event next month, we'll see.
Doug
 
IMO,
Fill to the top of the Frost Plugs with good Water & Oil Cooling, Studs & Girdle with help, but I can't see spending on the Block for much else ? or beyond a Chinese 4340 Crank and Rod combo(with upgraded Fasteners) that invariably are going in the metal bin with the rest of the Block in short order at an actual 1200-1300hp.

We've used 440 Source Crank/Rods to 950hp N/A on HEMI/Wedge stuff, but you gotta watch the Crank Grinds as they can be horribly sized(Highside) for this application, Rod Sizing and Line Honing is assumed to set Bearing clearances conducive, we just prefer lowside Grinds to allow "room" to work.
You must already know?
but I will suggest anyways, to stick with 2618 Cam & Barrel Slugs (NO 4032 Piston Forgings !!!!), with Ring prep & Finish for the boost as well.

Good Luck !
 
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Is it the 67 wagon that weighs 4000+? If it were my car, I'd for sure think about putting it on a diet. Heavy cars are not easy on parts. I have a stock but cut down and solid welded K frame that's 26 lbs for instance. Many do not like running factory front suspension parts but I did that some years back with a car that was 2950. 9.90's and nothing exotic except it was back halved and ladders....
 
IMO,
Fill to the top of the Frost Plugs with good Water & Oil Cooling, Studs & Girdle with help, but I can't see spending on the Block for much else ? or beyond a Chinese 4340 Crank and Rod combo(with upgraded Fasteners) that invariably are going in the metal bin with the rest of the Block in short order at an actual 1200-1300hp.

We've used 440 Source Crank/Rods to 950hp N/A on HEMI/Wedge stuff, but you gotta watch the Crank Grinds as they can be horribly sized(Highside) for this application, Rod Sizing and Line Honing is assumed to set Bearing clearances conducive, we just prefer lowside Grinds to allow "room" to work.
You must already know?
but I will suggest anyways, to stick with 2618 Cam & Barrel Slugs (NO 4032 Piston Forgings !!!!), with Ring prep & Finish for the boost as well.

Good Luck !

And that's the conundrum; invest a lot of money into a factory block and nice crank/rods to make it the best that it can be...or cut my losses and use a not-so-nice Chinese rotating assembly and be happy for what I get out of it. Both will eventually end up in a scrap bin but how soon is the question.
 
Is it the 67 wagon that weighs 4000+? If it were my car, I'd for sure think about putting it on a diet. Heavy cars are not easy on parts. I have a stock but cut down and solid welded K frame that's 26 lbs for instance. Many do not like running factory front suspension parts but I did that some years back with a car that was 2950. 9.90's and nothing exotic except it was back halved and ladders....

Car could definitely use a diet, which is why I used the guesstimater at 4500lbs and 4000lbs to see the advantages of cutting weight (about a 100whp). Car does not have A/C but does retain heat and power steering which I would like to keep. I think most of my weight savings will be in suspension, brakes, wheels/tires and honestly a little on my own waist line. I have no interest in cutting the car into Swiss-cheese or gutting it to hit my goal. I have been thinking about a tubular style k-member because the factory one is a boat anchor.

Side note: the scale I use is one that's at a local scrap recycling place that's left on all night, I am not sure of it's accuracy and just use it for reference.
 
And that's the conundrum; invest a lot of money into a factory block and nice crank/rods to make it the best that it can be...or cut my losses and use a not-so-nice Chinese rotating assembly and be happy for what I get out of it. Both will eventually end up in a scrap bin but how soon is the question.

As you must know here.... you are building a "grenade" with the pin already PULLED ?
just say'in....
the build genre to parts being obvious, the only extravagance should be to excellent Machining/Balancing/Assembly which will help the lesser parts survive, and is minimal cost above just "NAPA Store" farm implement "good enough" Machining.
 
Is it the 67 wagon that weighs 4000+? If it were my car, I'd for sure think about putting it on a diet. Heavy cars are not easy on parts. I have a stock but cut down and solid welded K frame that's 26 lbs for instance. Many do not like running factory front suspension parts but I did that some years back with a car that was 2950. 9.90's and nothing exotic except it was back halved and ladders....

What did you do to get it to 2950lbs?
 
66 Belvedere started out at 3370 so it wasn't that hard to drop it to 2950. Still had the factory AC on it too. The 9.90 car was an A body and it was pretty much gutted but a buddy had one that wasn't gutted....just absolutely no options, no undercoating etc etc but was all steel and stock windows and it too was under 3000 lbs.
 
Take it from me, been there and don that. If I could do over I’d start with a good block.
Like others say. It can be done. For how long? My 400 based 511 seems to have to come apart every 50-60 passes. It’s been 10.12 @133 at a starting line weight of 4100.
Billet mains, lifter bushings and all the machine work to get it where it is now was not cheap. #7 has a score in it and I am waiting for the machine shop to tell me if it’s a boat anchor. It’s already close to max and not much left to work with.
Also remember the motor is only part of the whole package. Proper trans, converter, rear end and suspension need to also be in play to run the number.
Right now I am running a second slower with my back up 440.
I’m at the point where as much as I hate going slower, I want things to hold together.
If my 511 goes back together I will tone it down a touch and save it. If I want to go faster, I’ll find another 250 pounds or so to pull off the car.
Many tricks to reduce weight while keeping it street.
Here is the 511 Dyno sheet.

AA461C19-A74A-497C-A1AA-307CB1C1EC18.jpeg
 
these block can be bored big , lots of factory webbing and thick cylinders .

DSC00728.JPG DSC00729.JPG
 
Take it from me, been there and don that. If I could do over I’d start with a good block.
Like others say. It can be done. For how long? My 400 based 511 seems to have to come apart every 50-60 passes. It’s been 10.12 @133 at a starting line weight of 4100.
Billet mains, lifter bushings and all the machine work to get it where it is now was not cheap. #7 has a score in it and I am waiting for the machine shop to tell me if it’s a boat anchor. It’s already close to max and not much left to work with.
Also remember the motor is only part of the whole package. Proper trans, converter, rear end and suspension need to also be in play to run the number.
Right now I am running a second slower with my back up 440.
I’m at the point where as much as I hate going slower, I want things to hold together.
If my 511 goes back together I will tone it down a touch and save it. If I want to go faster, I’ll find another 250 pounds or so to pull off the car.
Many tricks to reduce weight while keeping it street.
Here is the 511 Dyno sheet.

View attachment 613558

That's what I'm thinking about too, start with a strong block be done with it. I've spent my whole day trying to search for an aftermarket iron block
 
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