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HELP! Why did it orange peel?

74charger07ram

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On my 74 Charger I have painted the bottom, engine bay, all four wheel wells, interior, and trunk area. All these places I have media blasted, cleaned with wax and grease remover, primed and top coated with no problem. I painted the front and rear valances the other day and it orange peeled. I am using PPG DP50LF epoxy primer with DP402LF catalyst. PPG Deltron 2000 DBC paint with DT 885 reducer. Devilbiss primer gun 1.5, paint gun 1.3 at 30psi.
Three things different: the valances were sanded starting at 120 ending at 600 wet, the temp in the shop for the valances was 85, for everything else they were painted at a temp of 73-75 using a heater. The humidity was around 45-50% for the valances and around 10% for everything else. I used the 885 reducer for the valances and 870 reducer for everything else.
I wiped it down with wax and grease remover many times until it was clean.
The primer orange peeled and I guess the paint followed. Not sure what I did wrong or how to fix it. Thanks
 
I didn't look up the paints, but I will "assume" you didn't mix up the "part B's" and that you mixed them correctly (or close). Regarding the primer, epoxies are not prone to problems with high humidity (like urethanes are). The only affect you might see is a "blush" in high humidity conditions, depending upon the type of amine "part B" used. Amide "part B's" wouldn't have a blush issue at all.

Having said all that, and seeing that you took some precautions cleaning the surface, my first guess would be A) film thickness too high & second guess would be B)topcoat applied too soon (aka before the epoxy was cured).

Hope This Helps
 
orange peeled? ...... you mean fish eyed? ....... 2 different things

fisheye can occur simply by putting the initial coat down too wet
 
I know I've had to use acetone in ShopLine epoxy to get it to lay out before.
 
I put down one coat of prime, second coat of prime ten minutes later. first coat of paint 60 minutes later with a second coat 15 minutes later. Had not thought about film thickness.

I am not sure what fish eye looks like. It looked like the outside of an orange, lime or lemon. I don't have any pictures. I have sanded it back down to bare metal. I want to try it again but don't want the same result.
 
If your primer was orange peeled, the paint will take that texture. Just wet sand it flat and shoot it again.

Other things that cause orange peel is not enough antimization, not enough reducer, too fast of a reducer, temperature too warm for the rated reducer.
 
Fisheyes are round "holes" where paint didn't stick from contamination. I'm no painter but I did a hood and it had orange peel. Friend, who paints said it dried to fast and the paint didn't lay down. You did first batch good 85*, orange peel at 75*. Does the thinner have best temp to use on label? I sprayed in 70* with 85* thinner which friend explained was my problem.
Could be all wet. I spray stuff no problem but not that hood. I'd never tackle a whole car, screw up some of if for sure.
 
The paint is mixed one to one and they were both right on the same mark in the mixing cup. It was around 85* and was using 885 reducer. The 885 is right from 80 to 90 I think. What does "too fast reducer" mean? And not enough antimization. Thanks
 
Evaporates faster = dries to fast. Think I'm wrong, about the 80 /90 thinner, think at 72/73 it would take longer to evaporate. I should be quiet and wait for answers.
 
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What does "too fast reducer" mean? And not enough antimization.

Too fast of a reducer means the temp that it's rated for is too fast for the actual room temperature. I like to use a slower temperature rating then the actual room temp.

(Sorry I spelled atomization wrong)
Not enough atomization means air pressure to paint ratio is too low. You can paint with lower air pressure if the paint is thin enough. Ideally the right air pressure will atomize (break up) the paint into the best spray pattern. This also has to deal with the number tip that your gun has, how thin the paint is mixed, ect.

HVLP guns are designed to use less pressure with less over spray. Things have gotten more technical over the years and normally if you follow the manufacturer's instructions for their product, things go rather well. You can tweak things a little to fit your liking too. The more you fool with it the more you'll find how it works best for you. You sound like you have a good hold on it already.
 
Everything before hand has turned out good. I painted all the other areas to practice and thought I had it down. I think I should have used a slower reducer. Durning all the practice I tweeked the guns where I think they are right. But the higher temps messed me up. It has already been 100* here and ten day forecast is 97 to 99*. High temps at night 75-80*
 
Everything before hand has turned out good. I painted all the other areas to practice and thought I had it down. I think I should have used a slower reducer. Durning all the practice I tweeked the guns where I think they are right. But the higher temps messed me up. It has already been 100* here and ten day forecast is 97 to 99*. High temps at night 75-80*

Been there, done that.
 
product lifting or fish eye is like said before is from contamination, also fish eye can rear up like edubb said from painting to wet, not allowing the reducer to flash off.
The grease and wax remover is just 1/2 of the prep.
New / 1st use rags paper or no lint cloth are a must, one for the grease and wax remover and one to follow to wipe dry removing what the wet one lifts.
air contamination is always possible.
anyone out in the shop spray any kind of rattle can ? while you were painting ?
The DP should flow out just like a base coat, its used also as pre base sealer on panels.
With out watching you paint its hard to say what happened. Something as simple as gun distance from the panel or just arm speed will make orange peel even when all else is perfect.
 
I would have let the primer set up for at least a day then sand the primer coat with 400 or 600 before top coating.
Also, gun pressure. 30 psi low , not allowing for good atomization of the paint. That could have caused the orange peel.
At 40 psi and moving the gun a little faster will give a smoother finish with alot less orange peel.
Fisheye was mentioned before. That is caused by surface contamination which I don't think is the case here. Also, if the primer coat had an orange peel texture that will cause orange peel in the topcoat.
Over reduced paint can cause orange peel.
 
I googled fish eye and I did not have that. Even after wax and grease remover I wiped it down till the cloth was clean. Same method in the engine bay and no problem there. I'm the only one in the shop. I did catch myself lifting my paint gun higher to the left and right and closer to the panel in the middle. By the time I put the top coat on I had corrected that. But the orange peel was in the primer coat from one end to the other. I will raise the pressure to 40. I should have checked the primer coat before I sprayed the top coat but in the past nothing like that had happened. It is 80* and humidity at 70% today already maybe I'll paint at 2:00 am
 
primer should always be sanded smooth before paint...……. if used as a sealer (epoxy can be used either way),the sealer coat has added reducer (per instructions) and is usually applied in 1 thin film and allowed to flash prior to paint
 
The paper work I got with the primer (P-196) has the mix ratio as :DPLF epoxy primer:2, DPLF catalyst: 1, DTV reducer (optional) 1/2. *the use of DTV reducer is optional, however when used, the minimum recommened film build MUST be maintained. I have not been reducing it. So on a panel that has been wet sanded 600 and ready for paint, put two coats of epoxy prime that has been reduced, let dry, sand, and then paint top coat?
 
if its 600 with no breakthroughs...…. just paint it, forget the sealer coat...…… sometimes I cover small break throughs with a little aerosol primer (and lightly scuff it) to avoid primer overspray on my 600 prep.
 
You only need one wet coat of the DP epoxy primer if you are using it as a sealer. You can use the reducer if you want, it just goes on as a thinner coating. The primer gun tip is to big. Use your top coat gun (1.3) to spray the DP and it will flow much smoother. 40 PSI at the gun should be good.

The DP epoxy primer is non sanding. You can sand after 24 hours if needed. It will be real gummy if you try to sand it to soon.
 
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