Nitrous Express said Holley told them the spacer plates will fit our 2bbl carbs

biomedtechguy said:

Glad that you are involved in this thread given your years of experience with it, I appreciate your input!
I sent the regular "spacer" back yesterday and expect to receive the spray plate that I had paid for any day now. I specifically asked that whatever "fitting" or "attachment" that connects to the silver threaded connections in the attached picture also be sent and I would pay for them, or at least pictures and/or a detailed description. This is so I can see if it will fit between the front and back of the carbs, AND to see if a spray plate can be used on each 2 bbl carb.
I'll follow up.
View attachment 617963

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If you look closely at a 440 six pack intake, you will notice that the center/rear carburetor holes are closer together than the front/center holes. The fittings on the NOS kit I have are screw-on 90-degree elbows (both nitrous & fuel), so they extend about 1" (ballpark) out past the nitrous plates. There's only about 1-1/2" (ballpark) between the center/rear carburetor holes & maybe 2-1/2" (ballpark) between the front/center carburetor holes (more space for the center carb's metering block).

It just looks really tight between the center/rear carburetor holes to get TWO 90-degree elbows in there. I noticed this during my installation. I mean, you "might" be able to grind a little metal off those two elbows (back of center carb + front of rear carb) to get enough clearance....or "something"....it's just tight.

If you don't have a hood clearance issue (e.g. air grabber) then you might be able to stack some 1/2" spacers on all 3 carburetors. For example, on the outer carburetors have the nitrous plates right down on the intake with a blank 1/2" spacer above it + on the center carburetor, have the blank 1/2" spacer on the intake & the nitrous plate stacked on top (would offset the fittings between the center/rear carb).

Heck, you could probably drill holes & run fogger nozzles right into the intake, just under the center carburetor.... for foggers on all 8 intake ports....or...or... I'm sure it can be done, I just haven't figured out exactly how yet (cheaply).

PurpleBeeper said:

If you don't have a hood clearance issue (e.g. air grabber) then you might be able to stack some 1/2" spacers on all 3 carburetors. For example, on the outer carburetors have the nitrous plates right down on the intake with a blank 1/2" spacer above it + on the center carburetor, have the blank 1/2" spacer on the intake & the nitrous plate stacked on top (would offset the fittings between the center/rear carb).

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Speaking of Air Grabber, I was on my way in collecting parts, air box, flapper, vacuum actuator....I already have the N96 hood and scoop on the car and painted to match. I can't see completing the rest of the system AND having NO2 plates as well, but I have put off buying the rest of what I need to complete the Air Grabber system until I get the NO2 system figured out.
That "vertical stepping" is a plausible idea if need be, great idea and described in a way my mind can easily grasp, thank you.

PurpleBeeper said:

Heck, you could probably drill holes & run fogger nozzles right into the intake, just under the center carburetor.... for foggers on all 8 intake ports....or...or... I'm sure it can be done

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I have already talked with Wilson Manifolds when I was considering having my aluminum Chrysler Edelbrock 6bbl manifold ports modded to max wedge port size for the TrickFlow 270s, AND have them "drilled" and install Y fuel/NO2 foggers on each intake runner.
The more I thought about how I use my car, may use my car, the TrickFlow 240s are definitely going to be the ticket, but if a plate nitrous system doesn't work out, I know that a fogger on each intake runner can be done. I have seen them plumbed from UNDER the intake for a real stealthy setup. I would prefer the lower cost and reversibility of the plate system, and I know I can keep the "added HP" numbers low on a plate system. Not sure how low you can go in additional HP with 8 foggers spraying-but I'm guessing not as low as a plate system.
Thanks again.

Got my spray plate. Had a long talk with Kyle at Nitrous Express about the 6 bbl setup and my "plate positioning" plan that would culminate (with this current motor) in trying a 100 HP shot center plate, then move that spray plate to an outboard carb, add a second spray plate to the other outboard carb at 50 HP shot each (100 HP total) and put the spacer only in the center carb. He said since the spray plate is machined for 50-300 HP "jetting" running the plates @ 50 HP will not be very efficient because it is at the lowest end of their inherent design. I understand this now.
So I will probably start out at 75-100 HP, limit myself to 150 max through the center carb (may not even go there depending on what happens) and reserve future outboard carb spray plate experimentation until I build my stroker motor. What this nitrous experiment will do (hopefully not break anything) is have a definite impact on what the design and materials plans for my future stroker motor are. In other words if "I like nitrous" and it works fairly well on the dual plane intake (Kyle and I talked about that too) I have to build my future motor to account for using nitrous, and then I can go to 100 HP on the outboard carbs without worrying so much about breaking something.
(All of this from me-a guy with no nitrous experience.)
Comments?
Thanks!
Pics w/old gasket-looks like a good fit.

biomedtechguy said:

Speaking of Air Grabber, I was on my way in collecting parts, air box, flapper, vacuum actuator....I already have the N96 hood and scoop on the car and painted to match. I can't see completing the rest of the system AND having NO2 plates as well, but I have put off buying the rest of what I need to complete the Air Grabber system until I get the NO2 system figured out.
That "vertical stepping" is a plausible idea if need be, great idea and described in a way my mind can easily grasp, thank you.

I have already talked with Wilson Manifolds when I was considering having my aluminum Chrysler Edelbrock 6bbl manifold ports modded to max wedge port size for the TrickFlow 270s, AND have them "drilled" and install Y fuel/NO2 foggers on each intake runner.
The more I thought about how I use my car, may use my car, the TrickFlow 240s are definitely going to be the ticket, but if a plate nitrous system doesn't work out, I know that a fogger on each intake runner can be done. I have seen them plumbed from UNDER the intake for a real stealthy setup. I would prefer the lower cost and reversibility of the plate system, and I know I can keep the "added HP" numbers low on a plate system. Not sure how low you can go in additional HP with 8 foggers spraying-but I'm guessing not as low as a plate system.
Thanks again.

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Regarding the air grabber hood.... even with just a single set of 1/2" nitrous plates I had to notch the bottom of my air grabber scoop, passenger side, about 1/4" on the bottom front so the scoop would close. It's not really visible unless you look, but without this notch the front/passenger/lower corner of the scoop was hitting the top of the 6-pack air cleaner lid.

PurpleBeeper said:

Regarding the air grabber hood.... even with just a single set of 1/2" nitrous plates I had to notch the bottom of my air grabber scoop, passenger side, about 1/4" on the bottom front so the scoop would close. It's not really visible unless you look, but without this notch the front/passenger/lower corner of the scoop was hitting the top of the 6-pack air cleaner lid.

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Thanks for following this thread PB
I hope tomorrow I will make the time to test fit the plate and remove my carbs to send to Promax.

biomedtechguy said:

Thanks for following this thread PB
I hope tomorrow I will make the time to test fit the plate and remove my carbs to send to Promax.

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My NOS (Holley) Six Pack plates look like this. I have since acquired another " 3RD spray bar" plate to make all 3 of my plates functional instead of the center plate just being a spacer plate.

6PKRTSE said:

My NOS (Holley) Six Pack plates look like this. I have since acquired another " 3RD spray bar" plate to make all 3 of my plates functional instead of the center plate just being a spacer plate.

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6PKRTSE thanks for the input!
I still haven't found or made the time to pull my carbs to send to Promax or do a quick "test fit" of the spray plate.
I took the 3 Rochesters off my wife's 421 a week ago today and still need to pack and ship them.
Stay in the loop on this thread please! Your knowledge is appreciated!
This is what the plate looks like without the gasket I had left over sitting on it.

biomedtechguy said:

6PKRTSE thanks for the input!
I still haven't found or made the time to pull my carbs to send to Promax or do a quick "test fit" of the spray plate.
I took the 3 Rochesters off my wife's 421 a week ago today and still need to pack and ship them.
Stay in the loop on this thread please! Your knowledge is appreciated!
This is what the plate looks like without the gasket I had left over sitting on it.
View attachment 621179

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Those NX plates look to be about twice as thick as my NOS plates. I am not even sure if mine are going to clear my hood yet with the air cleaner on.

6PKRTSE said:

Those NX plates look to be about twice as thick as my NOS plates. I am not even sure if mine are going to clear my hood yet with the air cleaner on.

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As soon as I find or make the time, I'll report back w/pix.
Still busy with work, and that has to come first, or no bill and toy money!

6PKRTSE said:

Those NX plates look to be about twice as thick as my NOS plates. I am not even sure if mine are going to clear my hood yet with the air cleaner on.

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Yeah, the NOS plates are only 1/2" & the air grabber scoop won't close with a six pack....almost, but not fully. That's why I had to notch the passenger side/bottom of the scoop. If I can remember, I will try to post a picture of my notch since I have the scoop off right now.

6pkrte - the problem you "might" run into is the clearance of the elbow fittings between the rear of the center carb & the front of the rear carb. If you find a way to make it fit with a center nitrous plate, PLEASE post what you do.

Biomedtech - yeah, measure the height of your plates. 1/2" is really tight & 1" won't fit for sure (with air grabber + stock air cleaner anyway). I do have an extra '71 Mr. Norm Demon six pack air cleaner that would give you more hood clearance, but you'd have to modify it to seal up to an air grabber hood (shorter/smaller/no "skirt" to seal on rubber air grabber seal). Another option would be to see if you can find a machine shop to mill 1/4" off the top & 1/4" off the bottom of the nitrous plate (if it's 1").....maybe take more off the top & less off the bottom? Just make sure you don't obstruct the path of the nitrous/fuel into the intake manifold.

biomedtechguy said:

Speaking of Air Grabber, I was on my way in collecting parts, air box, flapper, vacuum actuator....I already have the N96 hood and scoop on the car and painted to match. I can't see completing the rest of the system AND having NO2 plates as well, but I have put off buying the rest of what I need to complete the Air Grabber system until I get the NO2 system figured out.
That "vertical stepping" is a plausible idea if need be, great idea and described in a way my mind can easily grasp, thank you.

I have already talked with Wilson Manifolds when I was considering having my aluminum Chrysler Edelbrock 6bbl manifold ports modded to max wedge port size for the TrickFlow 270s, AND have them "drilled" and install Y fuel/NO2 foggers on each intake runner.
The more I thought about how I use my car, may use my car, the TrickFlow 240s are definitely going to be the ticket, but if a plate nitrous system doesn't work out, I know that a fogger on each intake runner can be done. I have seen them plumbed from UNDER the intake for a real stealthy setup. I would prefer the lower cost and reversibility of the plate system, and I know I can keep the "added HP" numbers low on a plate system. Not sure how low you can go in additional HP with 8 foggers spraying-but I'm guessing not as low as a plate system.
Thanks again.

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Did Wilson give you an idea on the price for a MW conversion on the six pack? Was thinking about going that route on the roadrunner.

PurpleBeeper said:

That's why I had to notch the passenger side/bottom of the scoop. If I can remember, I will try to post a picture of my notch since I have the scoop off right now.

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Thanks! I'll be checking in for the picture.
I should have time under the hood this weekend!

PurpleBeeper said:

@6PKRTSE If you find a way to make it fit with a center nitrous plate, PLEASE post what you do.

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x2 !

PurpleBeeper said:

measure the height of your plates. 1/2" is really tight & 1" won't fit for sure (with air grabber + stock air cleaner anyway). I do have an extra '71 Mr. Norm Demon six pack air cleaner that would give you more hood clearance, but you'd have to modify it to seal up to an air grabber hood (shorter/smaller/no "skirt" to seal on rubber air grabber seal).

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Thanks. My guess on the plate is 3/4". I'll measure it this weekend.

68 HEMI GTS said:

Did Wilson give you an idea on the price for a MW conversion on the six pack? Was thinking about going that route on the roadrunner.

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I spoke with them about MW weld+port and NO2 foggers at the intake runners, and if they quoted a price (I really don't think they did) I don't remember.
They ABSOLUTELY said they could do it.
My "plans" may change again depending on how my NO2 experience goes.

Thanks guys!!!

biomedtechguy said:

I spoke with them about MW weld+port and NO2 foggers at the intake runners, and if they quoted a price (I really don't think they did) I don't remember.
They ABSOLUTELY said they could do it.
My "plans" may change again depending on how my NO2 experience goes.

Thanks guys!!!

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Thanks for the info!

I will say unless you have a really setup and prepared car, a properly built stroker when you get there topped with a equally built six pack (espically if you went MW ) is a prettty good ride in a street car. I can’t imagine pushing the button if I sprayed the roadrunner, neither it or me would last long (atleast on the street).

That hole MW Six bbl thing has me thinking though. Be pretty neat to open my SR’s up the rest of the way and keep the six pack. I know I have more carb in my case than what the manifold can probably flow.

I think the TrickFlow 240s are going to be a better match for the 2 plane Edelbrock intake. I also think that will widen the torque band, and peak horsepower, while not as high as MW ports, will come in at a lower RPM, and a cam profile that makes all of that work together will have less lift and lighter springs than a MW ported engine. I've seen 6bbl Edelbrock topped stroker RB motors make the power I'm looking for 6xx HP and 6xx torque, and the NO2 may not even be something I use then.
This may just be something I do to bridge the gap of time between now and when I get my new motor built.
Having said that, I may have a 100 HP shot in reserve once I get my traction resolved with the new motor. So far, I am still having traction problems with my current setup from off the line through 1st gear.

biomedtechguy said:

I think the TrickFlow 240s are going to be a better match for the 2 plane Edelbrock intake. I also think that will widen the torque band, and peak horsepower, while not as high as MW ports, will come in at a lower RPM, and a cam profile that makes all of that work together will have less lift and lighter springs than a MW ported engine. I've seen 6bbl Edelbrock topped stroker RB motors make the power I'm looking for 6xx HP and 6xx torque, and the NO2 may not even be something I use then.
This may just be something I do to bridge the gap of time between now and when I get my new motor built.
Having said that, I may have a 100 HP shot in reserve once I get my traction resolved with the new motor. So far, I am still having traction problems with my current setup from off the line through 1st gear.

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I get where your going. A lot of guys equate the MW port with high rpm. A 499 I built had MW-1’s on it though and wanted to shifted at 6500. Even with a 270 @ .050 / .650 street roller. Low mid range torque isn’t an issue on the big motors. I wouldn’t think twice about going with a 270 head on a 500 ci motor if starting from scratch even in a heavy b body. Thets still smaller than a 325-1 head which is a great head on 500 cubes. The standard port dual planes actually kind if suck on the big motors, I think one that’s opened up a bit would really work well. You won’t give up any torque. “383 man”s car is a good example of that. He runs a MW EZ head with the Indy dual plane. That car flat runs. A MW sized six pack would be the same effect. I’m not trying to tell you what to do or anything, just giving you my thoughts after running a six pack on a 500 cube motor. It’ll be fast either way you decide.

68 HEMI GTS said:

I think one that’s opened up a bit would really work well.

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IQ52 massaged the ports or runners a bit on a 6bbl Edelbrock intake, for better flow, but port size was "stock" IIRC.
I will have to discuss it with whoever builds my motor. The way my income varies, that could happen any week or not for another year or so.
I GREATLY appreciate the advice!

6PKRTSE said:

Those NX plates look to be about twice as thick as my NOS plates. I am not even sure if mine are going to clear my hood yet with the air cleaner on.

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They are 5/8" I measured the plate last night, when I finally made time to remove my carbs to send them to Promax for rebuilding and to have their parts installed.

I spoke with a NOS rep at the No Prep Street Outlaws Memphis races and he said the original guy (O.G.) who started NOS would put together a "custom" setup for my 6bbl. They wanted my manifold to use as a template for what may be a one piece 3 carb "plate" setup, and although about $250 more than the NX center carb only "generic" system, by the time I had spray plates under all 3 carbs w/the NX system, the cost would likely be the same or more.
I will explore the NOS offer further before I go all in with the NX guys.
Spraying all 3 carbs, even at a low HP level is probably more than I want to do with my existing motor.

1978 Mike Thermos was the founder of NOS
(Nitrous Oxide Systems) he wasn't the 1st user of N2O
(WWII military, Bonneville, early NHRA & some NASCAR guys like Smokey Yunick,
drag guys Dick Landy, Bob Glidden, Warren Johnson all experimented with it)
they were the 1st of the mass producers of it,
kit form & for sale
IIRC Dale Vaznaian {spelling} was the marketing guy
Mike he was pres. founder for some 20+ years,
he was at pretty much every big time Top Sportsman
Pro-Doorslammers event before they became Pro-Mods
I think he eventually got leveraged out, but
I don't really remember the exact circumstances now....

IIRC his new co. is now Nitrous Supply

NOS use to do 1 off drilled & plumed brass &/or stainless feed tubes
in/thru the manifold, epoxied in place, (removed the center divider on dual plane)
like spray bar kits, but permanently installed thru the intake, way back when...

IIRC Powerdyne Solenoids with Teflon seat 'were the ****' way back when
they were from high pressure pneumatic Industrial use org.
They flowed way better than most the N2O supplied solenoids did,
didn't hang up or stick/freeze open or closed like, many of the cheaper
"kit" supplied solenoids did either...
Not sure what products they use anymore, been a long time now
10 years probably....

N2O systems have come leaps & bounds from the old days
there were org. hardly no electronics or progressive controllers
or computer mapping stuff, just stand alone fuel pump,
a N20 dedicated system
usually a simple bypass 'full flow' pressure regulators
you don't want a failure there & safety switches,
pressure or hob switches
& manual electronics & arming switches,
a manual N2O activation push button
for when you want to press the 'go baby go' button
everything doesn't have to be electronic controlled
but a manual toggle just in case, you could shut it all down
org. there was no multiple retards steps, progressive or bump boxes etc.
Wire everything thru relays, so you don't get spikes
that voltage spike or loss of full 12-13vts can cause N2O explosions

We seemed to do just fine too,
I never lost an engine from N2O or a N2O explosion
we did burn a few pistons running on the ragged edge
too much timing &/or usually too lean, lifting a top ring land
{with quality Zero Gaps, wider clearances it happened far less}
there were a few idiots, that'd blow **** up regularly...
If you're not on the ragged edge it's not that big of a deal
IMO it's pretty safe & easy to make cheap power, if it's done right...
Even without a shitload of electronics & gadgets...

Mike Thermos was really the lead guy for a long time...
An innovator, professional racers all trusted him...
He came up with many of those products too
whether he actually invented them I don't know, he made them work...

Top Gun N2O & ERC fuel/CNC Race Products
were both a big player at one time too
been out of for years now, don't think they {Top Gun} even are still in it
I think ERC is till there...



a hob switch & FT activation micro switch in conjunction
{for proper fuel pressure & full throttle or it won't open/activate the solenoids}
were needed always, I'm sure some electronic gadget is used today
some computer controlled unit or progressive mapping laptop tunable stuff
anyway you don't want to activate any
N2O system with the carb or throttle body/throttle blades closed,
in board or outboard on a 6bbl, or a single or dual carb secondaries etc.
it's a good way to blow them off the engine or bend them,
&/or hang them up really bad, because of it...

with todays tech, a O2 sensor on both banks
& a bottle heater, a safety valve for the bottle
(they can hang up or not shut off or freeze, it's 209* below zero),
a blow off valve for back fires, protect the intake/carbs etc.
(for those that don't tune right)
is a safety issue, a purge valve before the N2O solenoid
just so you get liquid N2O at the solenoids
& not just CO2, hot air in the lines, fresh pure N2O
when activation, is a must do...

I'd highly suggest;
Talk with guys that really know 'their ****', not just act like it,
or think they know, talk with the real pros & don't skimp either,
don't do a internet tune, by guys that haven't really done it
or hearsay...

I'm done, that's all I'll say on the subject...

I've been out of long enough that's about as much as I'd add...
Comfortably confidently anyway...

Good luck

Budnicks said:

Mike Thermos was the founder of NOS

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THAT'S THE GUY the rep I spoke with called. Mike was at a ceremony for Tom McEwen when the rep spoke with him about my questions. Mike and his company would be the ones to do the setup for me!
Thanks AGAIN Budnicks-you always come through for me with GREAT and thoughtful, thorough advice and I REALLY appreciate it!!