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Solid Roller vs Solid F/T

m79ded

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Was toying with idea of possibly switching my Hughes Solid F/T cam to a Street Solid roller cam. I'm pleased with my F/T now but if I can get some more well why not!!
Now the question I have is there a substantial difference? Is it worth the expense? if so what lifters would be good for a street engine? I hear alot about needing frequent rebuilds and lash accuracy is important. I would really appreciate some input .
Merry X-Mas all and thank you
 
I have a Hughes F/T in my 493 engine and I like it but I went to a full rollerized system for my 540 Indy motor. That included Isky "bushing" rollers. They were a $ 1,500.00 upgrade but, no roller bearings to break and possibly ruin whole engine. Other brand bushed rollers are out there now.
Mike
 
I saw some info from Comp Cams and they did not recommend more than 2 minutes idling for there solid roller.
I know a professional engine builder over here and he does not recommend solid roller in street motor. I guess if you limit the time it idles they might be OK.
 
Sure depends on your use. Rollers are expensive & do need to be inspected regularly. My experience is you can get nearly the same performance from today's flat tappets. "Back in the day" my mushroom lifter solid cam made nearly the same power as the baddest roller cam I tried. Solid is less expensive.
 
The Hughes solid Flat Tappet cams are pretty good. Going to a roller is likely going to be expensive, Cam, Lifters, and springs. Maybe even different retainers and spring locators depending on the new spring size used. I don't know how much power you would gain? That would depend on the size and profile of the new cam.
My original solid roller "street cam" had a pretty mild profile, specs about like the Hughes SFT. It was real easy on the valve train, and never had any issues with the roller lifters. The cam I have now is more a race cam with agressive lobes, and way more duration and lift. It is way harder on the valve train. Not sure how long the roller lifters will last? Just saying alot of the durability of the roller lifters will depend on how agressive the cam lobes are and the spring pressures needed to control the valve motion. The worst thing to do is use too light a valve spring and bounce the lifters off the cam.
 
I saw some info from Comp Cams and they did not recommend more than 2 minutes idling for there solid roller.
I know a professional engine builder over here and he does not recommend solid roller in street motor. I guess if you limit the time it idles they might be OK.
Damn, in my drag race roller cam motors I sure would idle them much more than 2 minutes. That doesn't seem right at all. Idle didn't hurt things, 7200 - 7400 RPM did.
 
I have a Hughes F/T in my 493 engine and I like it but I went to a full rollerized system for my 540 Indy motor. That included Isky "bushing" rollers. They were a $ 1,500.00 upgrade but, no roller bearings to break and possibly ruin whole engine. Other brand bushed rollers are out there now.
Mike

This if you run a solid roller on the street!
 
Damn, in my drag race roller cam motors I sure would idle them much more than 2 minutes. That doesn't seem right at all. Idle didn't hurt things, 7200 - 7400 RPM did.


Agreed in my race motor would idle long time in the lanes never had any issues
 
This if you run a solid roller on the street!
So I guess to go the roller setup with good quality components gets very pricey, looking into the neighborhood of 3k with good rockers. HMMMMMMMMMM I wonder. Like FRATZOG Lover said " For a street motor, the Law of Diminishing Returns comes to mind." I'm beginning to think for that much $$$ the return on power wouldn't be the best. After all I did very well with Solid F/T . What's a street SR worth 20horses? .10 in 1/4 mile??
 
Solid roller vs Solid flat tappet is a question I will face.
The lobe profile of a roller is way different.
Although I put hydraulic roller cam and lifters in my wife's 421, for my MOPAR, on the recommendation of IQ52, if I went roller, solid roller is my only choice, because Jim LaRoy said so, and that's good enough for me.
I think that the larger diameter lifters in Mopar makes FT solid lifters a plausible option.
 
@m79ded

A SFT cam has a quicker initial lifter rise over the roller. That is important, but... After that, the solid roller has a quicker rise, fatter duration @.050. This should allow the roller to have a greater velocity, duration and aggressive profile. Should is the key word. IF it is a race cam. Street rollers, not so aggressive. But could/should be aggressive if ground in that fashion, be as a good or better nest to the solid flat tappet.

The profiles can vary widely on ether solid or solid roller. So you have to check there profiles as closely as possible. Look at durations figures from where there advertised duration figures are given, .200 & @ .050 and anywhere in between if you can to help draw a map of the lobe curve.

Generally speaking, a more radical aggressive curve should give the best power. I say should because if the equipment backing it up isn’t a likewise aggressive set up, the cam never shows its true potential and you might think it sucks.

It would be similar to putting stock big block heads from a 361 (small 2.08 valves) on a 542 stroker and expect it to run around the 8 second zone.

For the cost, & the performance return, I wouldn’t switch. I’m sure you’ll gain power but at the cost......
And the huge hassle & work associated that goes with it. Forget it! You’ll be pissed.

Now if you start from scratch and you want to build a fire breather, then yes that solid roller is what your looking at.

The Hughes cams are pretty good. You could also check out other cam grinders for more aggressive cams. Bullet/Ultra Dyne, Howard’s etc....

I, myself have a Lunati solid roller for my small block. It is a street grind. You can consider this solid roller a 7 out of 10 on the aggressive scale because it is designed for the street.

On my small block stroker race engine build, I have a Ultra Dyne solid flat tappet designed ONLY for the .904 lifter. I’d call this a 9 out of 10 only because a custom cut solid or custom cut solid roller would out do it without stepping up in duration.
 
a custom cut solid or custom cut solid roller would out do it without stepping up in duration.
I know before I get replies that the names will probably be familiar, but who can design a cam profile that takes advantage of the diameter of the MOPAR lifter, and also knows how to maximize the power output of a MOPAR stroker RB?
Thanks to the OP and to any who may reply. Power goals are 600HP, 650-700 torque, 93 octane fuel w/race blending an option.
 
I know before I get replies that the names will probably be familiar, but who can design a cam profile that takes advantage of the diameter of the MOPAR lifter, and also knows how to maximize the power output of a MOPAR stroker RB?
Thanks to the OP and to any who may reply. Power goals are 600HP, 650-700 torque, 93 octane fuel w/race blending an option.
You are almost bang on. Right now the 451 TFS240 I have, did 613hp and 6252TQ with a custom solid flat from Hughes/ Howards, My 79 Magnum ran 11:68 118mph and I was happy, it has 12" vacuum power brakes work power steering full interior, I like the car I bought it when I graduated school 40 years ago, one of the things I want to improve on is the 60' but being a 4200lbs car with 3.54 gears and a Ultimate 3600 converter it's not bad and it did a 1.70 60ft. I drive the car to shows frequently, go to cruises and race it every other week-end I do about 3000 miles a year on the car. Because I am carrying so much weight and people have been telling me to lighten it up but I don't want to deviate to much from the factory appearing. I wanted to go up in the HP and of course the TQ to get it out of the hole. Yea I will tune out a tenth or 2 and be a solid 11:50 car.But if I can get to 11:20's or so would be fantastic. So I want to retain as much driveability and go up a bit in power. So that's where I'm at.
rumbelfish360 made a great point of " For the cost, & the performance return, I wouldn’t switch. I’m sure you’ll gain power but at the cost......
And the huge hassle & work associated that goes with it. Forget it! You’ll be pissed."
I really read that statement well and really the cost is high for the returns, so that's why I wrote this post is it really a big gain or not??
 
@m79ded

A SFT cam has a quicker initial lifter rise over the roller. That is important, but... After that, the solid roller has a quicker rise, fatter duration @.050. This should allow the roller to have a greater velocity, duration and aggressive profile. Should is the key word. IF it is a race cam. Street rollers, not so aggressive. But could/should be aggressive if ground in that fashion, be as a good or better nest to the solid flat tappet.

The profiles can vary widely on ether solid or solid roller. So you have to check there profiles as closely as possible. Look at durations figures from where there advertised duration figures are given, .200 & @ .050 and anywhere in between if you can to help draw a map of the lobe curve.

Generally speaking, a more radical aggressive curve should give the best power. I say should because if the equipment backing it up isn’t a likewise aggressive set up, the cam never shows its true potential and you might think it sucks.

It would be similar to putting stock big block heads from a 361 (small 2.08 valves) on a 542 stroker and expect it to run around the 8 second zone.

For the cost, & the performance return, I wouldn’t switch. I’m sure you’ll gain power but at the cost......
And the huge hassle & work associated that goes with it. Forget it! You’ll be pissed.

Now if you start from scratch and you want to build a fire breather, then yes that solid roller is what your looking at.

The Hughes cams are pretty good. You could also check out other cam grinders for more aggressive cams. Bullet/Ultra Dyne, Howard’s etc....

I, myself have a Lunati solid roller for my small block. It is a street grind. You can consider this solid roller a 7 out of 10 on the aggressive scale because it is designed for the street.

On my small block stroker race engine build, I have a Ultra Dyne solid flat tappet designed ONLY for the .904 lifter. I’d call this a 9 out of 10 only because a custom cut solid or custom cut solid roller would out do it without stepping up in duration.
Thank you very much Rumblefish 360 your post is very informative. I'm happy my Mopar brothers can shed some light on this. Have a great day and happy new year
 
I know before I get replies that the names will probably be familiar, but who can design a cam profile that takes advantage of the diameter of the MOPAR lifter, and also knows how to maximize the power output of a MOPAR stroker RB?
Thanks to the OP and to any who may reply. Power goals are 600HP, 650-700 torque, 93 octane fuel w/race blending an option.
You can put a .904 lifter (or even larger) in any engine.
I have .904 solid roller lifters in my big block Chevy engine in my boat.

Point being, any qualified cam grinder will not be a fish out of water just because Chrysler used a .904 lifter from the factory.

I used Cam Motion for the 55mm solid roller cam in the boat engine.
 
I know before I get replies that the names will probably be familiar, but who can design a cam profile that takes advantage of the diameter of the MOPAR lifter, and also knows how to maximize the power output of a MOPAR stroker RB?
Thanks to the OP and to any who may reply. Power goals are 600HP, 650-700 torque, 93 octane fuel w/race blending an option.

You would get a better bang for the buck by way of better cylinder heads. While the overall cost is more than swapping over to a very well prepared engine block for a roller cam,, a knock’em dead roller cam won’t perform until you have the heads to back it up. Therefore, IMO, maximize the package and the cams ability with the best heads well done and use a 1.6 ratio or better. In which upping the rocker ratio is similar to adding a larger cam a tiny bit at a time per ratio point.

Truly taking advantage of the .904 lifter diameter and actually getting the most out of it is hard to do.

Stroll over to “Bullet Cams and find the Ultra Dyne cam list. Take note to how aggressive the Ford and Chevy camp cams can get in the stock lifter diameter.
(Comp cams XE 904 lifter designer cams? Yea right! LAMO! And I mean LAMO!)

Thank you very much Rumblefish 360 your post is very informative. I'm happy my Mopar brothers can shed some light on this. Have a great day and happy new year

Your welcome and happy New Years to you too!
 
I know before I get replies that the names will probably be familiar, but who can design a cam profile that takes advantage of the diameter of the MOPAR lifter, and also knows how to maximize the power output of a MOPAR stroker RB?
Thanks to the OP and to any who may reply. Power goals are 600HP, 650-700 torque, 93 octane fuel w/race blending an option.

A 600 hp pump gas stroker engine is pretty easy to build these days. You shouldn't have any trouble hitting those goals with a 10:1 compression 505 if you use Trick Flow 240 heads and pick the right cam. If it was my engine I'd use a hyd roller with 240 duration and probably go with a Performer RPM intake. I'd highly recommend using EFI such as a Holley Sniper kit. The shop I work with builds about 10 of those engines a year. With a baby cam they'll make 550 hp but if the owner is willing to turn the cam up a notch or two then they'll knock down 600 hp. The trick is to use the Sniper kit and the Hyperspark distributor so the computer controls the ignition timing. That allows you to tune the engine so it will run super smooth with the performance cam.
 
A 600 hp pump gas stroker engine is pretty easy to build these days. You shouldn't have any trouble hitting those goals with a 10:1 compression 505 if you use Trick Flow 240 heads and pick the right cam. If it was my engine I'd use a hyd roller with 240 duration and probably go with a Performer RPM intake. I'd highly recommend using EFI such as a Holley Sniper kit. The shop I work with builds about 10 of those engines a year. With a baby cam they'll make 550 hp but if the owner is willing to turn the cam up a notch or two then they'll knock down 600 hp. The trick is to use the Sniper kit and the Hyperspark distributor so the computer controls the ignition timing. That allows you to tune the engine so it will run super smooth with the performance cam.
Thanks Andy.
I'm enjoying your book.
If Holley would go ahead and produce the 3x2 Sniper system they have a patent for, I'd have a Sniper as an option.
I just read an article on a 3x2 Promax modded Holley setup on a 512 that is turning out 650 HP and 720 ft lbs torque.
Like I have said, 3x2 of something will top off my stroker.
 
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