Need 440 pulley help!

///Matt · Jan 9, 2019

Late 70’s (i think 76, maybe 78) 440, AC/PS... the PS/WP Belt is a screecher, starts getting loud pretty early, at say 2500rpm. It has already broken this belt in the past with a kickdown stomp rolling at 45 or so.

The pulleys are misaligned, and I’m not sure where to place blame (and therefore adjust/correct). I’m also not sure they are the “right” pulleys, as I did not build this motor.

The crank has 2 2-groove pulleys (or a funny 4?). The WP and PS have single groove on a shared belt. The second groove on the front of the crank is unused.

Is the space visible on the crank between the 2 sets of grooves normal? The WP pulley is notably closer to the block than the front groove on the crank, by maybe 1/16-1/8”. The PS is crooked too, but as I look at it I think it was done on purpose to sort of mediate the difference between crank and WP on the long run.

Short of selling a kidney to get a serpentine set up, what’s your best suggestion here? Wrong WP pulley maybe? Missing shims? (There’s healthy clearance between the fan and radiator) wrong crank pulley? Halp.

andyf · Jan 9, 2019

Take it apart and clean all the pulleys so you can find the part numbers on them. Look up the part numbers in the Master Parts Book for your car and see if they match. If not then go hunting. There are a ton of different pulley combinations so it is hard to help you without some better idea of what is wrong.

furryfrog · Jan 9, 2019

Looks like your engine is from an RV, due to the passenger side water pump intake, and accessories setup, so the crank pulley is not unusual. Mine is the same.
Leave the crank pulley where it is, your only issue is with the water pump and power steering. You need to adjust your water pump pulley so it inline and parallel, same with the power steering. Put a shim of the right size between the water pump shaft and water pump pulley to bring it out, and then sort out the power steering by adjusting the bracket that mounts it to the engine, use washers in the right spot, or take some of, grind a spacer, whatever you need to do.
Not expensive to do, just takes a bit of time.

StreetWedge65 · Jan 9, 2019

Water pump pulley is incorrect. A stock two groove should fix your problem.

///Matt · Jan 9, 2019

StreetWedge65 said:
Water pump pulley is incorrect. A stock two groove should fix your problem.

Thanks! Happen to know of a specific search parameter I should be using?

Summit isn’t much help, and the yearone pulleys make me wonder if I don’t just need a whole new set because they don’t look like mine... for instance their 4-groove crank has the front 2 grooves at a reduced diameter, while mine is contant across the 4.

You think this one from Yearone would fit? Says 65-74, and my block is newer than 74...

https://www.yearone.com/Product/chrysler-b-body/mj110

MoparLeo · Jan 9, 2019

Try these guys. They specialize in pulleys.
https://www.bouchillonperformance.com/products-pulleys

furryfrog · Jan 9, 2019

Another option, only if it needs spacing out though, not in. Pics look like it needs to come out, but hard to be sure from a picture.

https://store.440source.com/Water-Pump-Pulley-Spacer-New/productinfo/127-1003/

///Matt · Jan 9, 2019

Thanks all.

If I wanted to put in a Saginaw pump, with the keyed/nut pulley, do you think I’d need a different bracket, or will this one do?

///Matt · Jan 9, 2019

furryfrog said:
Another option, only if it needs spacing out though, not in. Pics look like it needs to come out, but hard to be sure from a picture.

https://store.440source.com/Water-Pump-Pulley-Spacer-New/productinfo/127-1003/

Thank you! It does appear to need to come out, assuming the crank pulley is in the right spot.

I hate things that are cobbled together, “good enough for government work” as they say. I’d really like to have all the pulleys be the right pulley, ha. Makes diagnosis of the root cause much easier.

Fran Blacker · Jan 9, 2019

If your running two belts to A/C pulley to crank pulley to alternator pulley they should be a matched pair.

///Matt · Jan 9, 2019

Fran Blacker said:
If your running two belts to A/C pulley to crank pulley to alternator pulley they should be a matched pair.

There are two belts on the AC/Alt line, and they fit and work well (though the AC compressor is just an idler pulley right now since its not hooked up).

///Matt · Jan 11, 2019

Went with Bouchillon for a new crank pulley and a new WP pulley. Hopefully both fit and pair up right, ha.

Anyone ever run a second belt in the empty crank groove to turn ONLY the water pump, while the front belt turn the WP and PS? I’m not certain that is a functional idea, but I do like the idea of still having cooling if the PS throws a belt (unlike last time, where I lost steering AND got hot....)

furryfrog · Jan 11, 2019

///Matt said:
Went with Bouchillon for a new crank pulley and a new WP pulley. Hopefully both fit and pair up right, ha.

Anyone ever run a second belt in the empty crank groove to turn ONLY the water pump, while the front belt turn the WP and PS? I’m not certain that is a functional idea, but I do like the idea of still having cooling if the PS throws a belt (unlike last time, where I lost steering AND got hot....)

Cool.

No, you can't adjust the belt tension that way, the power steering is what adjust the tension.

///Matt · Jan 11, 2019

furryfrog said:
Cool.

No, you can't adjust the belt tension that way, the power steering is what adjust the tension.

Ah, true. I guess without some trick extra tensioner pulley it’s not even possible.

///Matt · Jan 17, 2019

Well if it’s not one thing it’s another.

Put the new WP and Crank pulleys on, to minimal effect on my misalignment. So my alignment issue is elsewhere.

But wait! The AC pulley has like 1/16 or more of wobble to it. Sweet.

And THEN... while gently revving the engine to 2-3k to listen for squeals.... appears my fuel pump (few months old, few hundred miles on it) is shite, as its producing hardly a dribble into the clear pre-carb filter at 2k rpm, while having the pre-pump filter is totally full of good looking fuel. Sweet.

///Matt · Jan 17, 2019

Some images of my bulletnose balancer, and the water pump. Anyone think “wrong” water pump
Could be to blame? Were there options with different flange depths? There was no noticeable run out or wobble on the WP flange

Need 440 pulley help!

///Matt

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